Discussion:
kyma x
(too old to reply)
Peiman Khosravi
2010-03-11 21:10:10 UTC
Permalink
Hello,

I remember this came up a few years ago. Has anyone here ever used
kyma? Is it really the holy grail of sound design? What can you do
with it that can't be done with csound? http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Company/WebHome

Thanks

Peiman


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Anthony Palomba
2010-03-11 21:28:44 UTC
Permalink
I looked into Kyma, it is a pretty nice environment.
The problem is the price. With laptops getting more
and more powerful, I just don't see how it is worth
it in the long run.

I think Max/MSP and csound are a pretty awesome
combination.


-ap




On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Peiman Khosravi
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Hello,
I remember this came up a few years ago. Has anyone here ever used kyma? Is
it really the holy grail of sound design? What can you do with it that can't
be done with csound?
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Company/WebHome
Thanks
Peiman
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
Michael Gogins
2010-03-11 21:49:35 UTC
Permalink
There probably is not much that could be done in Kyma that could not
be done in Csound -- and vice versa. That is because both systems are,
among other things, Turing complete programming languages.

That said, am sure there are some things that are easier in one system
than in the other, and one system may even be easier to use for many
or most tasks. But, as my only exposure to Kyma was a brief demo by
its author at an AES convention some years go, I would not be able to
say which one. I will say that I was impressed by Kyma. It all seemed
very well integrated. I can also say that sound designers for film
seem to use Kyma more often than they do Csound, but this is based on
extremely anecdotal and unreliable data.

Csound seems by comparison a kind of crazy quilt system, but so far,
there is nothing that I have needed to do musically, that I had reason
to think is actually technically possible, that I did not end up being
able to do with Csound, and when I did, it sounded great.

For what it's worth,
Mike
Post by Anthony Palomba
I looked into Kyma, it is a pretty nice environment.
The problem is the price. With laptops getting more
and more powerful, I just don't see how it is worth
it in the long run.
I think Max/MSP and csound are a pretty awesome
combination.
-ap
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Hello,
I remember this came up a few years ago. Has anyone here ever used kyma?
Is it really the holy grail of sound design? What can you do with it that
can't be done with csound?
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Company/WebHome
Thanks
Peiman
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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Anthony Palomba
2010-03-11 22:08:44 UTC
Permalink
I do think there is something to be said about an integrated
environment that lets you get work done. Versus constantly
tweaking and fiddling with things to get them to do what you
want.

I could see how pro sound designers would like the fluid
work flow environment that Kyma offers. Especially when they are under
the gun to meet a deadline.



-ap
Post by Michael Gogins
There probably is not much that could be done in Kyma that could not
be done in Csound -- and vice versa. That is because both systems are,
among other things, Turing complete programming languages.
That said, am sure there are some things that are easier in one system
than in the other, and one system may even be easier to use for many
or most tasks. But, as my only exposure to Kyma was a brief demo by
its author at an AES convention some years go, I would not be able to
say which one. I will say that I was impressed by Kyma. It all seemed
very well integrated. I can also say that sound designers for film
seem to use Kyma more often than they do Csound, but this is based on
extremely anecdotal and unreliable data.
Csound seems by comparison a kind of crazy quilt system, but so far,
there is nothing that I have needed to do musically, that I had reason
to think is actually technically possible, that I did not end up being
able to do with Csound, and when I did, it sounded great.
For what it's worth,
Mike
Post by Anthony Palomba
I looked into Kyma, it is a pretty nice environment.
The problem is the price. With laptops getting more
and more powerful, I just don't see how it is worth
it in the long run.
I think Max/MSP and csound are a pretty awesome
combination.
-ap
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Peiman Khosravi <
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Hello,
I remember this came up a few years ago. Has anyone here ever used kyma?
Is it really the holy grail of sound design? What can you do with it
that
Post by Anthony Palomba
Post by Peiman Khosravi
can't be done with csound?
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Company/WebHome
Thanks
Peiman
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe
Post by Anthony Palomba
Post by Peiman Khosravi
csound"
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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Peiman Khosravi
2010-03-15 10:27:43 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for your replies Michael and Anthony. All that you say more or
less confirms my speculations.

I too would like to be able to compose in a more fluid way. For
instance the way that kyma seems to have a very powerful time-line,
resembling a DAW where sounds can be mixed and parameters can be
automated makes it a complete system. I love the idea that I'd use
only one tool alone and get to know it really well. I love Csound but
I personally find it difficult to use Csound for mixing, so I do
almost all my processing there and then mix elsewhere. Now blue does
offer the capability of tracking so I am kind of trying to see if
there is any justification for me to sell my dog (that's a joke!) to
get a second hand kyma system. I guess the advantage of kyma system is
that it's probably much faster than csound (due to the external
processor), which makes tweaking easier and more immediate and maybe
better integrated with the GUI since the whole environment was
developed together.

Thanks

Peiman
Post by Anthony Palomba
I do think there is something to be said about an integrated
environment that lets you get work done. Versus constantly
tweaking and fiddling with things to get them to do what you
want.
I could see how pro sound designers would like the fluid
work flow environment that Kyma offers. Especially when they are under
the gun to meet a deadline.
-ap
There probably is not much that could be done in Kyma that could not
be done in Csound -- and vice versa. That is because both systems are,
among other things, Turing complete programming languages.
That said, am sure there are some things that are easier in one system
than in the other, and one system may even be easier to use for many
or most tasks. But, as my only exposure to Kyma was a brief demo by
its author at an AES convention some years go, I would not be able to
say which one. I will say that I was impressed by Kyma. It all seemed
very well integrated. I can also say that sound designers for film
seem to use Kyma more often than they do Csound, but this is based on
extremely anecdotal and unreliable data.
Csound seems by comparison a kind of crazy quilt system, but so far,
there is nothing that I have needed to do musically, that I had reason
to think is actually technically possible, that I did not end up being
able to do with Csound, and when I did, it sounded great.
For what it's worth,
Mike
Post by Anthony Palomba
I looked into Kyma, it is a pretty nice environment.
The problem is the price. With laptops getting more
and more powerful, I just don't see how it is worth
it in the long run.
I think Max/MSP and csound are a pretty awesome
combination.
-ap
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Hello,
I remember this came up a few years ago. Has anyone here ever
used kyma?
Post by Anthony Palomba
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Is it really the holy grail of sound design? What can you do with
it that
Post by Anthony Palomba
Post by Peiman Khosravi
can't be done with csound?
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Company/WebHome
Thanks
Peiman
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe
Post by Anthony Palomba
Post by Peiman Khosravi
csound"
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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Richard Dobson
2010-03-15 11:14:04 UTC
Permalink
If I had the money (!) I would get one; both for the dsp acceleration
(no latency!) and the GUI. It seems to me the ideal composer's
interface, combining the flow-graph (U.Gen) paradigm with the
track-based one associated with DAWs. Or put another way, a DAW without
a flexible flow-graph system (i.e. the vast majority of them!) is really
only half an application. Its widespread use in film sound design, where
deadlines are ultra-tight, briefs can change in a flash, yet
novelty/originality is also de rigeur, speaks volumes for its power and
ease of use. Were I ever to design an integrated DAW-style system, that
is the GUI model I would likely follow; probably essential to meet the
special demands of extended multi-channel (arbitrary-order B-format etc)
composition.

Richard Dobson
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Thanks for your replies Michael and Anthony. All that you say more or
less confirms my speculations.
I too would like to be able to compose in a more fluid way. For instance
the way that kyma seems to have a very powerful time-line, resembling a
DAW where sounds can be mixed and parameters can be automated makes it a
complete system. I love the idea that I'd use only one tool alone and
get to know it really well. I love Csound but I personally find it
difficult to use Csound for mixing, so I do almost all my processing
there and then mix elsewhere. Now blue does offer the capability of
tracking so I am kind of trying to see if there is any justification for
me to sell my dog (that's a joke!) to get a second hand kyma system. I
guess the advantage of kyma system is that it's probably much faster
than csound (due to the external processor), which makes tweaking easier
and more immediate and maybe better integrated with the GUI since the
whole environment was developed together.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
Peiman Khosravi
2010-03-15 11:26:32 UTC
Permalink
Yes indeed. In fact thinking about it, all the money I've spent on
external interfaces + DAWs (protools, DP), plug-ins (GRM tools) put
together add up to about the same as it costs to buy a kyma system!

The idea of bypassing conventional DAWs is very attractive indeed. No
DAW is perfect for EA composition.

Best,

Peiman
Post by Richard Dobson
If I had the money (!) I would get one; both for the dsp
acceleration (no latency!) and the GUI. It seems to me the ideal
composer's interface, combining the flow-graph (U.Gen) paradigm with
the track-based one associated with DAWs. Or put another way, a DAW
without a flexible flow-graph system (i.e. the vast majority of
them!) is really only half an application. Its widespread use in
film sound design, where deadlines are ultra-tight, briefs can
change in a flash, yet novelty/originality is also de rigeur,
speaks volumes for its power and ease of use. Were I ever to design
an integrated DAW-style system, that is the GUI model I would likely
follow; probably essential to meet the special demands of extended
multi-channel (arbitrary-order B-format etc) composition.
Richard Dobson
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Thanks for your replies Michael and Anthony. All that you say more or
less confirms my speculations.
I too would like to be able to compose in a more fluid way. For instance
the way that kyma seems to have a very powerful time-line,
resembling a
DAW where sounds can be mixed and parameters can be automated makes it a
complete system. I love the idea that I'd use only one tool alone and
get to know it really well. I love Csound but I personally find it
difficult to use Csound for mixing, so I do almost all my processing
there and then mix elsewhere. Now blue does offer the capability of
tracking so I am kind of trying to see if there is any
justification for
me to sell my dog (that's a joke!) to get a second hand kyma
system. I
guess the advantage of kyma system is that it's probably much faster
than csound (due to the external processor), which makes tweaking easier
and more immediate and maybe better integrated with the GUI since the
whole environment was developed together.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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m***@city-net.com
2010-03-13 12:22:14 UTC
Permalink
Kyma was my primary compositional tool from 1994-2004. It is fabulous and
IMO there's nothing better. However, it is expensive. I switched to Csound
after retiring from my day job. There is no way now I can afford to keep
up with Kyma upgrades.

So far, I haven't encountered anything that I can't do in Csound that I
was doing with Kyma, though Kyma is faster and more intuitive to work
with. Since I am completely self-taught, Csound totally baffled me when I
first looked at it around 1996. Kyma, and Carla Scaletti's excellent
manual and tutorials, taught me enough about how digital sound works that
the switch to Csound has been an enjoyable one. That said, I don't
hesitate to recommend Kyma to anyone who asks. However, whether it's the
holy grail...only Monty Python knows for sure.

--David
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Hello,
I remember this came up a few years ago. Has anyone here ever used
kyma? Is it really the holy grail of sound design? What can you do
with it that can't be done with csound?
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Company/WebHome
Thanks
Peiman
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
Brian Wong
2010-03-13 15:04:09 UTC
Permalink
I am far too poor to even consider such a system, but surely there is one important thing Kyma can do that Csound cannot : interface with a Continuum keyboard.



BW
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 07:22:14 -0500
Subject: [Csnd] Re: kyma x
Kyma was my primary compositional tool from 1994-2004. It is fabulous and
IMO there's nothing better. However, it is expensive. I switched to Csound
after retiring from my day job. There is no way now I can afford to keep
up with Kyma upgrades.
So far, I haven't encountered anything that I can't do in Csound that I
was doing with Kyma, though Kyma is faster and more intuitive to work
with. Since I am completely self-taught, Csound totally baffled me when I
first looked at it around 1996. Kyma, and Carla Scaletti's excellent
manual and tutorials, taught me enough about how digital sound works that
the switch to Csound has been an enjoyable one. That said, I don't
hesitate to recommend Kyma to anyone who asks. However, whether it's the
holy grail...only Monty Python knows for sure.
--David
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Hello,
I remember this came up a few years ago. Has anyone here ever used
kyma? Is it really the holy grail of sound design? What can you do
with it that can't be done with csound?
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Company/WebHome
Thanks
Peiman
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
_________________________________________________________________
Live connected with Messenger on your phone
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Michael Gogins
2010-03-13 16:12:18 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for your informed feedback.

I would be very interested to hear what you think could be changed in
Csound to make it easier for people like you to use.

Regards,
Mike
Post by m***@city-net.com
Kyma was my primary compositional tool from 1994-2004. It is fabulous and
IMO there's nothing better. However, it is expensive. I switched to Csound
after retiring from my day job. There is no way now I can afford to keep
up with Kyma upgrades.
So far, I haven't encountered anything that I can't do in Csound that I
was doing with Kyma, though Kyma is faster and more intuitive to work
with. Since I am completely self-taught, Csound totally baffled me when I
first looked at it around 1996. Kyma, and Carla Scaletti's excellent
manual and tutorials, taught me enough about how digital sound works that
the switch to Csound has been an enjoyable one. That said, I don't
hesitate to recommend Kyma to anyone who asks. However, whether it's the
holy grail...only Monty Python knows for sure.
--David
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Hello,
I remember this came up a few years ago. Has anyone here ever used
kyma? Is it really the holy grail of sound design? What can you do
with it that can't be done with csound?
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Company/WebHome
Thanks
Peiman
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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Anthony Palomba
2010-03-13 16:29:46 UTC
Permalink
Well I think the thing that makes Kyma easier to use is that it is
an integrated environment that comes out of the box with a timeline
and many objects that you can drag and drop into your project.
There is no programming work required by the user.

The closest thing I have been able to come to that is a Csound/Max/Ableton
environment. Although I love the control that this combination gives me, it
takes
a lot of work to manage it. I think I spend more time programming than
I do making music.


-ap



On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Michael Gogins
Post by Michael Gogins
Thanks for your informed feedback.
I would be very interested to hear what you think could be changed in
Csound to make it easier for people like you to use.
Regards,
Mike
Post by m***@city-net.com
Kyma was my primary compositional tool from 1994-2004. It is fabulous and
IMO there's nothing better. However, it is expensive. I switched to
Csound
Post by m***@city-net.com
after retiring from my day job. There is no way now I can afford to keep
up with Kyma upgrades.
So far, I haven't encountered anything that I can't do in Csound that I
was doing with Kyma, though Kyma is faster and more intuitive to work
with. Since I am completely self-taught, Csound totally baffled me when I
first looked at it around 1996. Kyma, and Carla Scaletti's excellent
manual and tutorials, taught me enough about how digital sound works that
the switch to Csound has been an enjoyable one. That said, I don't
hesitate to recommend Kyma to anyone who asks. However, whether it's the
holy grail...only Monty Python knows for sure.
--David
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Hello,
I remember this came up a few years ago. Has anyone here ever used
kyma? Is it really the holy grail of sound design? What can you do
with it that can't be done with csound?
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Company/WebHome
Thanks
Peiman
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe
Post by m***@city-net.com
Post by Peiman Khosravi
csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
csound"
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
Steven Yi
2010-03-13 16:57:12 UTC
Permalink
I would mention blue/csound as a reasonable combination as well. I
looked into Kyma around the same time Michael Gogins did (I think we
both went to the same presentation at AES!) and thought about
blue/csound and how it would compare. The main thing I see that Kyma
has over blue/csound is that everything is working in realtime,
including changes to the instrument graph and recording of input data
(midi, osc, audio, etc.). On the other hand, blue/csound has many
scoring features that I do not think exist in Kyma (noteProcessors,
scripting for scores using a general language (python, javascript),
duration dependent notes due to csound's instrument system).
blue/csound is also open source.

Kyma also has many pre-built items out of the box. blue has a number
of pre-built contributions in blueShare for effects and instruments,
but not nearly as many as Kyma does. As Anthony mentioned building
things in Kyma is graphical, while in blue it's a mix of Csound
scripting and graphical for UI widgets. A completely graphical
instrument building system could be created in blue that resembles
Kyma/Reaktor, but there hasn't been time enough to build it yet
(though it's on my mind).

I can say that at this time, since I have built up a nice library of
instruments and effects in blue, that when I go to compose I am
spending much more of my time working on musical issues than I am
technical ones. I am working on realtime MIDI and Audio input and
capture currently to improve the workflow just that much more, but it
is not ready yet.

One thing I would mention is that as wonderful and powerful a system
Kyma is (and I have a lot of respect for it), the dependency on custom
hardware has always been a red flag for me. I have been deeply
concerned about the long-term life of musical works and being able to
revisit them in the future. I have seen friends lose the ability to
open projects when Apple moved from PPC to Intel, and I have seen
projects created using small shareware utilities (and have created
them myself a long time ago) that I have no way of revisiting now. I
think of Xenakis' UPIC work and many other pieces by composers that I
feel will only exist as a rendered recording and feel it's a shame.
So long term projects with blue/csound has definitely been an issue to
me. (It's also allowed me to work on and move between Linux, Windows,
and OSX over the years without problems).

Anyways, just some thoughts about it all. :)

steven


On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 11:29 AM, Anthony Palomba
Post by Anthony Palomba
Well I think the thing that makes Kyma easier to use is that it is
an integrated environment that comes out of the box with a timeline
and many objects that you can drag and drop into your project.
There is no programming work required by the user.
The closest thing I have been able to come to that is a Csound/Max/Ableton
environment. Although I love the control that this combination gives me, it
takes
a lot of work to manage it. I think I spend more time programming than
I do making music.
-ap
Post by Michael Gogins
Thanks for your informed feedback.
I would be very interested to hear what you think could be changed in
Csound to make it easier for people like you to use.
Regards,
Mike
Post by m***@city-net.com
Kyma was my primary compositional tool from 1994-2004. It is fabulous and
IMO there's nothing better. However, it is expensive. I switched to Csound
after retiring from my day job. There is no way now I can afford to keep
up with Kyma upgrades.
So far, I haven't encountered anything that I can't do in Csound that I
was doing with Kyma, though Kyma is faster and more intuitive to work
with. Since I am completely self-taught, Csound totally baffled me when I
first looked at it around 1996. Kyma, and Carla Scaletti's excellent
manual and tutorials, taught me enough about how digital sound works that
the switch to Csound has been an enjoyable one. That said, I don't
hesitate to recommend Kyma to anyone who asks. However, whether it's the
holy grail...only Monty Python knows for sure.
--David
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Hello,
I remember this came up a few years ago. Has anyone here ever used
kyma? Is it really the holy grail of sound design? What can you do
with it that can't be done with csound?
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Company/WebHome
Thanks
Peiman
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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Brian Wong
2010-03-13 17:50:09 UTC
Permalink
As you know I am a blue user, so this email is preaching to the choir with respect to me. :)



The points about Kyma being an integrated system and realtime I think are certainly key issues, as well as the supposedly excellent selection of pre-built items. I don't really know much about algorithmic composition with Kyma, but from what I have read I believe I would have to use Smalltalk, which I don't know anything about. Now that I am getting comfortable with Python I don't relish moving to another scripting language; Python is just so easy to use.



Personally I like the text-based nature of Csound and Python, and blue gives me the timeline to organize it intuitively. The graphical UI issue seems very important to a lot of people, but as I get into AC I don't find that graphical UI is particularly useful. It is the realtime aspect of Kyma that appeals to me, particularly the programmable interface with such an instrument as the Continuum keyboard.



The point you make about the selection of good instruments and effects packaged with Kyma is a very important one I think, and somewhere that improvement can realistically be made. If blue came packaged with a nice selection of quality standard instruments (drums, strings, basses, pianos, etc.) with clear examples of how to use them effectively I would suppose it would help a lot.



BW
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 11:57:12 -0500
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: kyma x
I would mention blue/csound as a reasonable combination as well. I
looked into Kyma around the same time Michael Gogins did (I think we
both went to the same presentation at AES!) and thought about
blue/csound and how it would compare. The main thing I see that Kyma
has over blue/csound is that everything is working in realtime,
including changes to the instrument graph and recording of input data
(midi, osc, audio, etc.). On the other hand, blue/csound has many
scoring features that I do not think exist in Kyma (noteProcessors,
scripting for scores using a general language (python, javascript),
duration dependent notes due to csound's instrument system).
blue/csound is also open source.
Kyma also has many pre-built items out of the box. blue has a number
of pre-built contributions in blueShare for effects and instruments,
but not nearly as many as Kyma does. As Anthony mentioned building
things in Kyma is graphical, while in blue it's a mix of Csound
scripting and graphical for UI widgets. A completely graphical
instrument building system could be created in blue that resembles
Kyma/Reaktor, but there hasn't been time enough to build it yet
(though it's on my mind).
I can say that at this time, since I have built up a nice library of
instruments and effects in blue, that when I go to compose I am
spending much more of my time working on musical issues than I am
technical ones. I am working on realtime MIDI and Audio input and
capture currently to improve the workflow just that much more, but it
is not ready yet.
One thing I would mention is that as wonderful and powerful a system
Kyma is (and I have a lot of respect for it), the dependency on custom
hardware has always been a red flag for me. I have been deeply
concerned about the long-term life of musical works and being able to
revisit them in the future. I have seen friends lose the ability to
open projects when Apple moved from PPC to Intel, and I have seen
projects created using small shareware utilities (and have created
them myself a long time ago) that I have no way of revisiting now. I
think of Xenakis' UPIC work and many other pieces by composers that I
feel will only exist as a rendered recording and feel it's a shame.
So long term projects with blue/csound has definitely been an issue to
me. (It's also allowed me to work on and move between Linux, Windows,
and OSX over the years without problems).
Anyways, just some thoughts about it all. :)
steven
On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 11:29 AM, Anthony Palomba
Post by Anthony Palomba
Well I think the thing that makes Kyma easier to use is that it is
an integrated environment that comes out of the box with a timeline
and many objects that you can drag and drop into your project.
There is no programming work required by the user.
The closest thing I have been able to come to that is a Csound/Max/Ableton
environment. Although I love the control that this combination gives me, it
takes
a lot of work to manage it. I think I spend more time programming than
I do making music.
-ap
Post by Michael Gogins
Thanks for your informed feedback.
I would be very interested to hear what you think could be changed in
Csound to make it easier for people like you to use.
Regards,
Mike
Post by m***@city-net.com
Kyma was my primary compositional tool from 1994-2004. It is fabulous
and
IMO there's nothing better. However, it is expensive. I switched to
Csound
after retiring from my day job. There is no way now I can afford to keep
up with Kyma upgrades.
So far, I haven't encountered anything that I can't do in Csound that I
was doing with Kyma, though Kyma is faster and more intuitive to work
with. Since I am completely self-taught, Csound totally baffled me when
I
first looked at it around 1996. Kyma, and Carla Scaletti's excellent
manual and tutorials, taught me enough about how digital sound works
that
the switch to Csound has been an enjoyable one. That said, I don't
hesitate to recommend Kyma to anyone who asks. However, whether it's the
holy grail...only Monty Python knows for sure.
--David
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Hello,
I remember this came up a few years ago. Has anyone here ever used
kyma? Is it really the holy grail of sound design? What can you do
with it that can't be done with csound?
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Company/WebHome
Thanks
Peiman
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe
csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
csound"
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
_________________________________________________________________
Check your Hotmail from your phone.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712957
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
Michael Gogins
2010-03-13 17:55:43 UTC
Permalink
SmallTalk is an excellent general-purpose programming language. To me
its main disadvantage today is its smaller user base as compared with
Python or Java.

Regards,
Mike
Post by Brian Wong
As you know I am a blue user, so this email is preaching to the choir with
respect to me. :)
The points about Kyma being an integrated system and realtime I think are
certainly key issues, as well as the supposedly excellent selection
of pre-built items. I don't really know much about algorithmic composition
with Kyma, but from what I have read I believe I would have to use
Smalltalk, which I don't know anything about. Now that I am getting
comfortable with Python I don't relish moving to another scripting language;
Python is just so easy to use.
Personally I like the text-based nature of Csound and Python, and blue gives
me the timeline to organize it intuitively. The graphical UI issue seems
very important to a lot of people, but as I get into AC I don't find that
graphical UI is particularly useful. It is the realtime aspect of Kyma that
appeals to me, particularly the programmable interface with such an
instrument as the Continuum keyboard.
The point you make about the selection of good instruments and effects
packaged with Kyma is a very important one I think, and somewhere that
improvement can realistically be made. If blue came packaged with a nice
selection of quality standard instruments (drums, strings, basses, pianos,
etc.) with clear examples of how to use them effectively I would suppose it
would help a lot.
BW
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 11:57:12 -0500
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: kyma x
I would mention blue/csound as a reasonable combination as well. I
looked into Kyma around the same time Michael Gogins did (I think we
both went to the same presentation at AES!) and thought about
blue/csound and how it would compare. The main thing I see that Kyma
has over blue/csound is that everything is working in realtime,
including changes to the instrument graph and recording of input data
(midi, osc, audio, etc.). On the other hand, blue/csound has many
scoring features that I do not think exist in Kyma (noteProcessors,
scripting for scores using a general language (python, javascript),
duration dependent notes due to csound's instrument system).
blue/csound is also open source.
Kyma also has many pre-built items out of the box. blue has a number
of pre-built contributions in blueShare for effects and instruments,
but not nearly as many as Kyma does. As Anthony mentioned building
things in Kyma is graphical, while in blue it's a mix of Csound
scripting and graphical for UI widgets. A completely graphical
instrument building system could be created in blue that resembles
Kyma/Reaktor, but there hasn't been time enough to build it yet
(though it's on my mind).
I can say that at this time, since I have built up a nice library of
instruments and effects in blue, that when I go to compose I am
spending much more of my time working on musical issues than I am
technical ones. I am working on realtime MIDI and Audio input and
capture currently to improve the workflow just that much more, but it
is not ready yet.
One thing I would mention is that as wonderful and powerful a system
Kyma is (and I have a lot of respect for it), the dependency on custom
hardware has always been a red flag for me. I have been deeply
concerned about the long-term life of musical works and being able to
revisit them in the future. I have seen friends lose the ability to
open projects when Apple moved from PPC to Intel, and I have seen
projects created using small shareware utilities (and have created
them myself a long time ago) that I have no way of revisiting now. I
think of Xenakis' UPIC work and many other pieces by composers that I
feel will only exist as a rendered recording and feel it's a shame.
So long term projects with blue/csound has definitely been an issue to
me. (It's also allowed me to work on and move between Linux, Windows,
and OSX over the years without problems).
Anyways, just some thoughts about it all. :)
steven
On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 11:29 AM, Anthony Palomba
Post by Anthony Palomba
Well I think the thing that makes Kyma easier to use is that it is
an integrated environment that comes out of the box with a timeline
and many objects that you can drag and drop into your project.
There is no programming work required by the user.
The closest thing I have been able to come to that is a
Csound/Max/Ableton
environment. Although I love the control that this combination gives me, it
takes
a lot of work to manage it. I think I spend more time programming than
I do making music.
-ap
On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Michael Gogins
Post by Michael Gogins
Thanks for your informed feedback.
I would be very interested to hear what you think could be changed in
Csound to make it easier for people like you to use.
Regards,
Mike
Post by m***@city-net.com
Kyma was my primary compositional tool from 1994-2004. It is fabulous and
IMO there's nothing better. However, it is expensive. I switched to Csound
after retiring from my day job. There is no way now I can afford to keep
up with Kyma upgrades.
So far, I haven't encountered anything that I can't do in Csound that I
was doing with Kyma, though Kyma is faster and more intuitive to work
with. Since I am completely self-taught, Csound totally baffled me when
I
first looked at it around 1996. Kyma, and Carla Scaletti's excellent
manual and tutorials, taught me enough about how digital sound works that
the switch to Csound has been an enjoyable one. That said, I don't
hesitate to recommend Kyma to anyone who asks. However, whether it's the
holy grail...only Monty Python knows for sure.
--David
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Hello,
I remember this came up a few years ago. Has anyone here ever used
kyma? Is it really the holy grail of sound design? What can you do
with it that can't be done with csound?
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Company/WebHome
Thanks
Peiman
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
 https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
csound"
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
________________________________
Live connected with Messenger on your phone Learn more.
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
Brian Wong
2010-03-13 18:13:28 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Mike. Hopefully Kyma-X will become Python compatible by the time I can afford it. :)
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 12:55:43 -0500
Subject: [Csnd] Re: RE: Re: Re: Re: Re: kyma x
SmallTalk is an excellent general-purpose programming language. To me
its main disadvantage today is its smaller user base as compared with
Python or Java.
Regards,
Mike
Post by Brian Wong
As you know I am a blue user, so this email is preaching to the choir with
respect to me. :)
The points about Kyma being an integrated system and realtime I think are
certainly key issues, as well as the supposedly excellent selection
of pre-built items. I don't really know much about algorithmic composition
with Kyma, but from what I have read I believe I would have to use
Smalltalk, which I don't know anything about. Now that I am getting
comfortable with Python I don't relish moving to another scripting language;
Python is just so easy to use.
Personally I like the text-based nature of Csound and Python, and blue gives
me the timeline to organize it intuitively. The graphical UI issue seems
very important to a lot of people, but as I get into AC I don't find that
graphical UI is particularly useful. It is the realtime aspect of Kyma that
appeals to me, particularly the programmable interface with such an
instrument as the Continuum keyboard.
The point you make about the selection of good instruments and effects
packaged with Kyma is a very important one I think, and somewhere that
improvement can realistically be made. If blue came packaged with a nice
selection of quality standard instruments (drums, strings, basses, pianos,
etc.) with clear examples of how to use them effectively I would suppose it
would help a lot.
BW
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 11:57:12 -0500
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: kyma x
I would mention blue/csound as a reasonable combination as well. I
looked into Kyma around the same time Michael Gogins did (I think we
both went to the same presentation at AES!) and thought about
blue/csound and how it would compare. The main thing I see that Kyma
has over blue/csound is that everything is working in realtime,
including changes to the instrument graph and recording of input data
(midi, osc, audio, etc.). On the other hand, blue/csound has many
scoring features that I do not think exist in Kyma (noteProcessors,
scripting for scores using a general language (python, javascript),
duration dependent notes due to csound's instrument system).
blue/csound is also open source.
Kyma also has many pre-built items out of the box. blue has a number
of pre-built contributions in blueShare for effects and instruments,
but not nearly as many as Kyma does. As Anthony mentioned building
things in Kyma is graphical, while in blue it's a mix of Csound
scripting and graphical for UI widgets. A completely graphical
instrument building system could be created in blue that resembles
Kyma/Reaktor, but there hasn't been time enough to build it yet
(though it's on my mind).
I can say that at this time, since I have built up a nice library of
instruments and effects in blue, that when I go to compose I am
spending much more of my time working on musical issues than I am
technical ones. I am working on realtime MIDI and Audio input and
capture currently to improve the workflow just that much more, but it
is not ready yet.
One thing I would mention is that as wonderful and powerful a system
Kyma is (and I have a lot of respect for it), the dependency on custom
hardware has always been a red flag for me. I have been deeply
concerned about the long-term life of musical works and being able to
revisit them in the future. I have seen friends lose the ability to
open projects when Apple moved from PPC to Intel, and I have seen
projects created using small shareware utilities (and have created
them myself a long time ago) that I have no way of revisiting now. I
think of Xenakis' UPIC work and many other pieces by composers that I
feel will only exist as a rendered recording and feel it's a shame.
So long term projects with blue/csound has definitely been an issue to
me. (It's also allowed me to work on and move between Linux, Windows,
and OSX over the years without problems).
Anyways, just some thoughts about it all. :)
steven
On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 11:29 AM, Anthony Palomba
Post by Anthony Palomba
Well I think the thing that makes Kyma easier to use is that it is
an integrated environment that comes out of the box with a timeline
and many objects that you can drag and drop into your project.
There is no programming work required by the user.
The closest thing I have been able to come to that is a
Csound/Max/Ableton
environment. Although I love the control that this combination gives me,
it
takes
a lot of work to manage it. I think I spend more time programming than
I do making music.
-ap
On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Michael Gogins
Post by Michael Gogins
Thanks for your informed feedback.
I would be very interested to hear what you think could be changed in
Csound to make it easier for people like you to use.
Regards,
Mike
Post by m***@city-net.com
Kyma was my primary compositional tool from 1994-2004. It is fabulous
and
IMO there's nothing better. However, it is expensive. I switched to
Csound
after retiring from my day job. There is no way now I can afford to
keep
up with Kyma upgrades.
So far, I haven't encountered anything that I can't do in Csound that
I
was doing with Kyma, though Kyma is faster and more intuitive to work
with. Since I am completely self-taught, Csound totally baffled me
when
I
first looked at it around 1996. Kyma, and Carla Scaletti's excellent
manual and tutorials, taught me enough about how digital sound works
that
the switch to Csound has been an enjoyable one. That said, I don't
hesitate to recommend Kyma to anyone who asks. However, whether it's
the
holy grail...only Monty Python knows for sure.
--David
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Hello,
I remember this came up a few years ago. Has anyone here ever used
kyma? Is it really the holy grail of sound design? What can you do
with it that can't be done with csound?
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Company/WebHome
Thanks
Peiman
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe
csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe
csound"
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe
csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
csound"
________________________________
Live connected with Messenger on your phone Learn more.
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
_________________________________________________________________
Check your Hotmail from your phone.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712957
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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Stéphane Rollandin
2010-03-13 19:59:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Gogins
SmallTalk is an excellent general-purpose programming language. To me
its main disadvantage today is its smaller user base as compared with
Python or Java.
The muO component of the Surmulot musical composition system (those
other component is csound-x) is written in smalltalk. It is actually a
fully functional Smalltalk implementation, so if you want a taste of
smalltalk it's only a click away:

http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/sqgeo.htm

Smalltalk is indeed an amazing programming language

Stef




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Brian Wong
2010-03-13 21:14:53 UTC
Permalink
Thank you Stef, I downloaded Sumulot and it looks interesting. I hope to find some time to play with it soon.



BW
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:59:47 +0100
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: Re: Re: kyma x
Post by Michael Gogins
SmallTalk is an excellent general-purpose programming language. To me
its main disadvantage today is its smaller user base as compared with
Python or Java.
The muO component of the Surmulot musical composition system (those
other component is csound-x) is written in smalltalk. It is actually a
fully functional Smalltalk implementation, so if you want a taste of
http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/sqgeo.htm
Smalltalk is indeed an amazing programming language
Stef
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
_________________________________________________________________
Check your Hotmail from your phone.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712957
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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Marc D. Demers
2010-03-14 06:13:35 UTC
Permalink
Hi Stef,

Once again, you have made my life easier with a «to go» muO...

Merci,

Marc

p.s. Surmulot is getting better also...
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:59:47 +0100
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: Re: Re: kyma x
Post by Michael Gogins
SmallTalk is an excellent general-purpose programming language. To me
its main disadvantage today is its smaller user base as compared with
Python or Java.
The muO component of the Surmulot musical composition system (those
other component is csound-x) is written in smalltalk. It is actually a
fully functional Smalltalk implementation, so if you want a taste of
http://www.zogotounga.net/comp/squeak/sqgeo.htm
Smalltalk is indeed an amazing programming language
Stef
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
_________________________________________________________________
Emmenez vos contacts faire un tour.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9712963
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Peiman Khosravi
2010-03-13 17:29:13 UTC
Permalink
Hi Steven,

Yes I certainly agree with you. I think though there are a couple of
points:

Hardware dependancy, as expensive and commercially corrupt as it is
means better stability. For instance comparing os x to linux and even
windows, the thing that makes os x so user-friendly is that the
software and hardware are made by the same company and they work very
well together.

Kyma being aimed mainly for sound-designers does not focus so much on
score design and note processing. And I think this is really where
blue and kyma differ (speed apart). Whereas blue is very powerful in
processing and generating score events for csound composition (no
doubt because it is also your personal composition tool and suites
very much your compositional methods) kyma is more about
controllability of the instruments (parameters as continuums) which is
more suitable for sound design I think. Of course blue does have
amazing features like the line object or automations. So I think blue
is very close to achieving what kyma seems to do ;-)

I think a bunch of users should get together and create a library of
instruments for sound design in blue. That way we can assess the
possible shortages that could improve blue in this area. I would
volunteer myself to convert all my max/csound FFT instruments to blue
plug-ins to begin with.

Best,

Peiman

PS I have decided to stick with csound/blue/max for now.
Post by Steven Yi
I would mention blue/csound as a reasonable combination as well. I
looked into Kyma around the same time Michael Gogins did (I think we
both went to the same presentation at AES!) and thought about
blue/csound and how it would compare. The main thing I see that Kyma
has over blue/csound is that everything is working in realtime,
including changes to the instrument graph and recording of input data
(midi, osc, audio, etc.). On the other hand, blue/csound has many
scoring features that I do not think exist in Kyma (noteProcessors,
scripting for scores using a general language (python, javascript),
duration dependent notes due to csound's instrument system).
blue/csound is also open source.
Kyma also has many pre-built items out of the box. blue has a number
of pre-built contributions in blueShare for effects and instruments,
but not nearly as many as Kyma does. As Anthony mentioned building
things in Kyma is graphical, while in blue it's a mix of Csound
scripting and graphical for UI widgets. A completely graphical
instrument building system could be created in blue that resembles
Kyma/Reaktor, but there hasn't been time enough to build it yet
(though it's on my mind).
I can say that at this time, since I have built up a nice library of
instruments and effects in blue, that when I go to compose I am
spending much more of my time working on musical issues than I am
technical ones. I am working on realtime MIDI and Audio input and
capture currently to improve the workflow just that much more, but it
is not ready yet.
One thing I would mention is that as wonderful and powerful a system
Kyma is (and I have a lot of respect for it), the dependency on custom
hardware has always been a red flag for me. I have been deeply
concerned about the long-term life of musical works and being able to
revisit them in the future. I have seen friends lose the ability to
open projects when Apple moved from PPC to Intel, and I have seen
projects created using small shareware utilities (and have created
them myself a long time ago) that I have no way of revisiting now. I
think of Xenakis' UPIC work and many other pieces by composers that I
feel will only exist as a rendered recording and feel it's a shame.
So long term projects with blue/csound has definitely been an issue to
me. (It's also allowed me to work on and move between Linux, Windows,
and OSX over the years without problems).
Anyways, just some thoughts about it all. :)
steven
On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 11:29 AM, Anthony Palomba
Post by Anthony Palomba
Well I think the thing that makes Kyma easier to use is that it is
an integrated environment that comes out of the box with a timeline
and many objects that you can drag and drop into your project.
There is no programming work required by the user.
The closest thing I have been able to come to that is a Csound/Max/
Ableton
environment. Although I love the control that this combination gives me, it
takes
a lot of work to manage it. I think I spend more time programming than
I do making music.
-ap
Post by Michael Gogins
Thanks for your informed feedback.
I would be very interested to hear what you think could be changed in
Csound to make it easier for people like you to use.
Regards,
Mike
Post by m***@city-net.com
Kyma was my primary compositional tool from 1994-2004. It is
fabulous
and
IMO there's nothing better. However, it is expensive. I switched to Csound
after retiring from my day job. There is no way now I can afford to keep
up with Kyma upgrades.
So far, I haven't encountered anything that I can't do in Csound that I
was doing with Kyma, though Kyma is faster and more intuitive to work
with. Since I am completely self-taught, Csound totally baffled
me when
I
first looked at it around 1996. Kyma, and Carla Scaletti's
excellent
manual and tutorials, taught me enough about how digital sound
works
that
the switch to Csound has been an enjoyable one. That said, I don't
hesitate to recommend Kyma to anyone who asks. However, whether it's the
holy grail...only Monty Python knows for sure.
--David
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Hello,
I remember this came up a few years ago. Has anyone here ever used
kyma? Is it really the holy grail of sound design? What can you do
with it that can't be done with csound?
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Company/WebHome
Thanks
Peiman
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Dave Phillips
2010-03-15 10:50:00 UTC
Permalink
Greetings,

Would someone in this discussion kindly post the costs for a
fully-loaded Kyma system ?

Would someone who's been using the system also post the on-going costs
they've paid for system updates ?

I'm not trying to start a flame-fest, I'm seriously interested in the
price for such a system and I couldn't find the information elsewheres.

Best,

dp



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Peiman Khosravi
2010-03-15 10:55:55 UTC
Permalink
Never used it but here is the order page with prices.

http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Order/WebHome

At the moment I know someone who is selling an older system (second
hand) for €1000. But I'm not sure if it's worth it as I will never be
able to keep up with the upgrades. I think I'll stick with blue csound
and max though, having read all the comments here :-)

Best,

P
Post by Dave Phillips
Greetings,
Would someone in this discussion kindly post the costs for a fully-
loaded Kyma system ?
Would someone who's been using the system also post the on-going
costs they've paid for system updates ?
I'm not trying to start a flame-fest, I'm seriously interested in
the price for such a system and I couldn't find the information
elsewheres.
Best,
dp
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Dave Phillips
2010-03-15 11:12:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Never used it but here is the order page with prices.
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Order/WebHome
Thank you, Peiman, I missed that page somehow.
Post by Peiman Khosravi
At the moment I know someone who is selling an older system (second
hand) for €1000. But I'm not sure if it's worth it as I will never be
able to keep up with the upgrades. I think I'll stick with blue csound
and max though, having read all the comments here :-)
I guess that's a fair price for a used system. It does seem that you're
getting a lot of value for the money. I've looked at Kyma systems for
many years now, but alas, they've always been priced out of
affordability for me.

Best,

dp



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Mark Van Peteghem
2010-03-15 21:18:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peiman Khosravi
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Order/WebHome
I guess I'll just buy the T-shirt.
Victor Lazzarini
2010-03-15 21:25:10 UTC
Permalink
If we are talking about wishes, mine is

http://www.buchla.com/series200e.html

scroll down the page to system 7.

Victor
Post by Mark Van Peteghem
Post by Peiman Khosravi
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Order/WebHome
I guess I'll just buy the T-shirt.
--
Mark
_________________________________________
When you get lemons, you make lemonade.
When you get hardware, you make software.
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Brian Wong
2010-03-15 22:43:45 UTC
Permalink
Talking about wishes, mine is Buchla 200e PLUS a Continuum keyboard. Plus Kyma. Plus an apartment big enough to fit it all in.



BW



From: ***@nuim.ie
To: ***@lists.bath.ac.uk
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:25:10 +0000
Subject: [Csnd] [OT] wishes (was Re: Re: kyma x)


If we are talking about wishes, mine is


http://www.buchla.com/series200e.html


scroll down the page to system 7.


Victor


On 15 Mar 2010, at 21:18, Mark Van Peteghem wrote:

Peiman Khosravi wrote:

http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Order/WebHome

I guess I'll just buy the T-shirt.
--
Mark
_________________________________________
When you get lemons, you make lemonade.
When you get hardware, you make software.



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_________________________________________________________________
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Rory Walsh
2010-03-16 09:01:08 UTC
Permalink
As a guitarist this is being on my mind lately:
http://line6.com/tcddk/

Rory.
Post by Brian Wong
Talking about wishes, mine is Buchla 200e PLUS a Continuum keyboard. Plus
Kyma. Plus an apartment big enough to fit it all in.
BW
________________________________
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:25:10 +0000
Subject: [Csnd] [OT] wishes (was Re: Re: kyma x)
If we are talking about wishes, mine is
http://www.buchla.com/series200e.html
scroll down the page to system 7.
Victor
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Order/WebHome
I guess I'll just buy the T-shirt.
--
Mark
_________________________________________
When you get lemons, you make lemonade.
When you get hardware, you make software.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
________________________________
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Brian Wong
2010-03-16 09:50:35 UTC
Permalink
As another guitarist I'll add that to the list. :P



BW
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:01:08 +0000
Subject: [Csnd] Re: RE: [OT] wishes (was Re: Re: kyma x)
http://line6.com/tcddk/
Rory.
Post by Brian Wong
Talking about wishes, mine is Buchla 200e PLUS a Continuum keyboard. Plus
Kyma. Plus an apartment big enough to fit it all in.
BW
________________________________
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:25:10 +0000
Subject: [Csnd] [OT] wishes (was Re: Re: kyma x)
If we are talking about wishes, mine is
http://www.buchla.com/series200e.html
scroll down the page to system 7.
Victor
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Order/WebHome
I guess I'll just buy the T-shirt.
--
Mark
_________________________________________
When you get lemons, you make lemonade.
When you get hardware, you make software.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
csound"
________________________________
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Rory Walsh
2010-03-16 09:56:30 UTC
Permalink
It would be pretty nice to get Csound running on it, we could make a
fortune selling pedals!
Post by Brian Wong
As another guitarist I'll add that to the list. :P
BW
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 09:01:08 +0000
Subject: [Csnd] Re: RE: [OT] wishes (was Re: Re: kyma x)
http://line6.com/tcddk/
Rory.
Post by Brian Wong
Talking about wishes, mine is Buchla 200e PLUS a Continuum keyboard. Plus
Kyma. Plus an apartment big enough to fit it all in.
BW
________________________________
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:25:10 +0000
Subject: [Csnd] [OT] wishes (was Re: Re: kyma x)
If we are talking about wishes, mine is
http://www.buchla.com/series200e.html
scroll down the page to system 7.
Victor
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Order/WebHome
I guess I'll just buy the T-shirt.
--
Mark
_________________________________________
When you get lemons, you make lemonade.
When you get hardware, you make software.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
________________________________
Take your contacts everywhere. Try Messenger for mobile
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Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
________________________________
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Peiman Khosravi
2010-03-16 10:00:25 UTC
Permalink
Since we're getting into the subject of wishes, here is mine (in
addition to kyma)

http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/ms_stereo_set

Best,

P
Post by Brian Wong
Talking about wishes, mine is Buchla 200e PLUS a Continuum keyboard.
Plus Kyma. Plus an apartment big enough to fit it all in.
BW
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:25:10 +0000
Subject: [Csnd] [OT] wishes (was Re: Re: kyma x)
If we are talking about wishes, mine is
http://www.buchla.com/series200e.html
scroll down the page to system 7.
Victor
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Order/WebHome
I guess I'll just buy the T-shirt.
--
Mark
_________________________________________
When you get lemons, you make lemonade.
When you get hardware, you make software.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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Jacob Joaquin
2010-03-16 14:54:33 UTC
Permalink
Where to start... Max4Live, Akai APC40, sound panels/diffusers/traps
(plan on building some of these myself in the near future), about 4k
worth of eurorack modules, and a lush shag rug for the studio.

The pitfall of being an electronic musician and/or a guitar player is
that there is always at least one other thing you think you need or
want. At least in my experience. :)

Best,
Jake
--
The Csound Blog - http://csound.noisepages.com/



On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 3:00 AM, Peiman Khosravi
Since we're getting into the subject of wishes, here is mine (in addition to
kyma)
http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/ms_stereo_set
Best,
P
Talking about wishes, mine is Buchla 200e PLUS a Continuum keyboard. Plus
Kyma. Plus an apartment big enough to fit it all in.
BW
________________________________
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:25:10 +0000
Subject: [Csnd] [OT] wishes (was Re: Re: kyma x)
If we are talking about wishes, mine is
http://www.buchla.com/series200e.html
scroll down the page to system 7.
Victor
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Order/WebHome
I guess I'll just buy the T-shirt.
--
Mark
_________________________________________
When you get lemons, you make lemonade.
When you get hardware, you make software.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
csound"
________________________________
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Peiman Khosravi
2010-03-16 15:01:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jacob Joaquin
Where to start... Max4Live, Akai APC40, sound panels/diffusers/traps
(plan on building some of these myself in the near future), about 4k
worth of eurorack modules, and a lush shag rug for the studio.
The pitfall of being an electronic musician and/or a guitar player is
that there is always at least one other thing you think you need or
want. At least in my experience. :)
At least you don't have to pay musicians to rehears your works. I
think it works out cheaper in the end ;-)

Best,

Peiman
Post by Jacob Joaquin
Best,
Jake
--
The Csound Blog - http://csound.noisepages.com/
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 3:00 AM, Peiman Khosravi
Since we're getting into the subject of wishes, here is mine (in addition to
kyma)
http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/ms_stereo_set
Best,
P
Talking about wishes, mine is Buchla 200e PLUS a Continuum
keyboard. Plus
Kyma. Plus an apartment big enough to fit it all in.
BW
________________________________
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:25:10 +0000
Subject: [Csnd] [OT] wishes (was Re: Re: kyma x)
If we are talking about wishes, mine is
http://www.buchla.com/series200e.html
scroll down the page to system 7.
Victor
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Order/WebHome
I guess I'll just buy the T-shirt.
--
Mark
_________________________________________
When you get lemons, you make lemonade.
When you get hardware, you make software.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe
csound"
________________________________
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Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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Michael Gogins
2010-03-16 15:21:21 UTC
Permalink
I think maybe he was talking about procrastination, not expense.

Regards,
Mike

On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Peiman Khosravi
Where to start...  Max4Live, Akai APC40, sound panels/diffusers/traps
(plan on building some of these myself in the near future), about 4k
worth of eurorack modules, and a lush shag rug for the studio.
The pitfall of being an electronic musician and/or a guitar player is
that there is always at least one other thing you think you need or
want. At least in my experience.  :)
At least you don't have to pay musicians to rehears your works. I think it
works out cheaper in the end ;-)
Best,
Peiman
Best,
Jake
--
The Csound Blog - http://csound.noisepages.com/
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 3:00 AM, Peiman Khosravi
Since we're getting into the subject of wishes, here is mine (in addition to
kyma)
http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/ms_stereo_set
Best,
P
Talking about wishes, mine is Buchla 200e PLUS a Continuum keyboard. Plus
Kyma. Plus an apartment big enough to fit it all in.
BW
________________________________
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:25:10 +0000
Subject: [Csnd] [OT] wishes (was Re: Re: kyma x)
If we are talking about wishes, mine is
http://www.buchla.com/series200e.html
scroll down the page to system 7.
Victor
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Order/WebHome
I guess I'll just buy the T-shirt.
--
Mark
_________________________________________
When you get lemons, you make lemonade.
When you get hardware, you make software.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
         https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
________________________________
Take your contacts everywhere. Try Messenger for mobile
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


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Peiman Khosravi
2010-03-16 15:31:55 UTC
Permalink
As in Wagner's velvet sofa?!
Post by Michael Gogins
I think maybe he was talking about procrastination, not expense.
Regards,
Mike
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Peiman Khosravi
Post by Jacob Joaquin
Where to start... Max4Live, Akai APC40, sound panels/diffusers/
traps
(plan on building some of these myself in the near future), about 4k
worth of eurorack modules, and a lush shag rug for the studio.
The pitfall of being an electronic musician and/or a guitar player is
that there is always at least one other thing you think you need or
want. At least in my experience. :)
At least you don't have to pay musicians to rehears your works. I think it
works out cheaper in the end ;-)
Best,
Peiman
Post by Jacob Joaquin
Best,
Jake
--
The Csound Blog - http://csound.noisepages.com/
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 3:00 AM, Peiman Khosravi
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Since we're getting into the subject of wishes, here is mine (in
addition
to
kyma)
http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/ms_stereo_set
Best,
P
Talking about wishes, mine is Buchla 200e PLUS a Continuum
keyboard. Plus
Kyma. Plus an apartment big enough to fit it all in.
BW
________________________________
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 21:25:10 +0000
Subject: [Csnd] [OT] wishes (was Re: Re: kyma x)
If we are talking about wishes, mine is
http://www.buchla.com/series200e.html
scroll down the page to system 7.
Victor
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Order/WebHome
I guess I'll just buy the T-shirt.
--
Mark
_________________________________________
When you get lemons, you make lemonade.
When you get hardware, you make software.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?
group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe
csound"
________________________________
Take your contacts everywhere. Try Messenger for mobile
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
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Jacob Joaquin
2010-03-16 15:41:18 UTC
Permalink
At least you don't have to pay musicians to rehears your works. I think it
works out cheaper in the end ;-)
I've never even considered that, as I don't write for real
instruments. Though I've been getting the itch as of lately. If only
there was someone in town with one of those fancy Bohlen-Pierce
clarinets.

Though I continue to desire hardware and software, I've learned many
of these things don't actually add any value to my music, and at
times, can be a great hindrance. As Spock once put it, "After a time,
you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as
wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true."

Best,
Jake
Richard Dobson
2010-03-16 15:47:02 UTC
Permalink
I feel that to fully capture the spirit of this thread, the wishes
should be for something relatively exotic/rarified/unusual; I think Kyma
qualifies here. I think a mere handful of people have one in the UK, and
quite possibly ~no~ academic institutions. So Continuum Fingerborad
definitely; a piano (even if it were to cost more) or
<standard-kit-of-choice> etc does not have quite the same
rhetorical/symbolic flavour, somehow!

Richard Dobson
Post by Jacob Joaquin
Where to start... Max4Live, Akai APC40, sound panels/diffusers/traps
(plan on building some of these myself in the near future), about 4k
worth of eurorack modules, and a lush shag rug for the studio.
The pitfall of being an electronic musician and/or a guitar player is
that there is always at least one other thing you think you need or
want. At least in my experience. :)
Best,
Jake
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Jacob Joaquin
2010-03-16 15:54:12 UTC
Permalink
I feel that to fully capture the spirit of this thread, the wishes should be
for something relatively exotic/rarified/unusual;
In that case, an anechoic chamber. :)

Best,
Jake


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Peiman Khosravi
2010-03-16 16:14:43 UTC
Permalink
Actually is there one in UK? Once I went inside the one they have at
IRCAM, I was expecting a massively different environment from what I'm
used to but it was rather disappointing. Although it will be great for
recording isolated sound sources I guess.

P
Post by Jacob Joaquin
I feel that to fully capture the spirit of this thread, the wishes should be
for something relatively exotic/rarified/unusual;
In that case, an anechoic chamber. :)
Best,
Jake
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe csound"
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kelly hirai
2010-03-16 17:17:33 UTC
Permalink
the anechoic chamber at Florida State, used for psycoacoustic measurements
was disassembled shortly before i arrived. (before 2003).

a nicely stocked black box theater, emersive projection, sound, lights,
and a rack of linux boxes to control it all.

kelly
Actually is there one in UK? Once I went inside the one they have at IRCAM, I
was expecting a massively different environment from what I'm used to but it
was rather disappointing. Although it will be great for recording isolated
sound sources I guess.
P
Post by Jacob Joaquin
I feel that to fully capture the spirit of this thread, the wishes should be
for something relatively exotic/rarified/unusual;
In that case, an anechoic chamber. :)
Best,
Jake
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
2010-03-17 07:49:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Actually is there one in UK? Once I went inside the one they have at
IRCAM, I was expecting a massively different environment from what I'm
used to but it was rather disappointing. Although it will be great for
recording isolated sound sources I guess.
There is a strong rumour that there is one in my university, but I hve
never found it.




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https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
Victor Lazzarini
2010-03-17 08:46:43 UTC
Permalink
There was one in Trinity College Dublin, one of the earlier models.
Apparently it suffered from lots of crashing and people did not seem
to use it much. It was quickly overtaken by general-purpose computers
(which is one of the reasons I never gave them too much thought).

Victor
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Actually is there one in UK? Once I went inside the one they have at
IRCAM, I was expecting a massively different environment from what I'm
used to but it was rather disappointing. Although it will be great for
recording isolated sound sources I guess.
There is a strong rumour that there is one in my university, but I hve
never found it.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
Peiman Khosravi
2010-03-17 16:06:49 UTC
Permalink
I'm still battling with this. "To kyma or not to kyma?". The hardware
available for sale is rather old, but the symbolic sound people assure
me that it is fully compatible with the latest software. But then it's
another language to learn... To get it I'll end up with a €1000 hole
in my pocket which is not going to make life easier for the next few
months.

Mhhhhh the question is, is it worth it... To be honest I am a little
sceptical, all the online demos seem to sound very typical, and all
these wii/continuum demons are a bit unfortunate as they don't really
demonstrate the real ability of the system but make it look like it's
being aimed at a kind of "boys with their toys" market. But it's a
bloody expensive toy, and if that's what it is then I am definitely
not going to spend all that money on it. For instance kyma is supposed
to have a sonogram editor (like audio sculpt) but then there are no
demonstration of that. Is it really as good as AS for editing the
sonogram? mhhh no way of knowing. Has anyone seen a demo or tried the
sonogram editor?

They also state in their FAQ that most users use it in conjunction
with a DAW which is fine but then if the time-line doesn't allow
detailed mixing/editing then I'm not sure if it really is the holy
grail everyone goes on about.

I initially imagined that it's a kind of real-time and bug free CDP
system plus a time-line, which is rather promising (at least on the OS
X I cannot manage to use CDP very smoothly with 24-bit audio so I gave
up in the end). But is it!?? Or is it just another fancy gear in the
studio for chucking out cliché sounds (which is the done thing in
Hollywood sound design!) and showing off the continuum keyboard?!

In the meantime I'm beginning to find my way through the partikkel
opcode in parallel with Roads' Microsound. Very exciting :-)

Best,

Peiman
Post by Victor Lazzarini
There was one in Trinity College Dublin, one of the earlier models.
Apparently it suffered from lots of crashing and people did not seem
to use it much. It was quickly overtaken by general-purpose
computers (which is one of the reasons I never gave them too much
thought).
Victor
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Actually is there one in UK? Once I went inside the one they have at
IRCAM, I was expecting a massively different environment from what I'm
used to but it was rather disappointing. Although it will be great for
recording isolated sound sources I guess.
There is a strong rumour that there is one in my university, but I hve
never found it.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
V***@nuim.ie
2010-03-17 18:39:03 UTC
Permalink
If you ask my opinion, don't spend your money on outdated HW. It will only get more and more out of date. Stick with well supported and maintained FOSS systems, whichever is your choice (SC3, PD and Csound fit the bill well). My 2 cents, for what's worth (well, Eur 0.02 actually ;)

Victor

----- Original Message -----
From: Peiman Khosravi <***@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 4:07 pm
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: [OT] wishes (was Re: Re: kyma x)
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I'm still battling with this. "To kyma or not to kyma?". The
hardware
available for sale is rather old, but the symbolic sound people assure
me that it is fully compatible with the latest software. But
then it's
another language to learn... To get it I'll end up with a €1000 hole
in my pocket which is not going to make life easier for the next few
months.
Mhhhhh the question is, is it worth it... To be honest I am a
little
sceptical, all the online demos seem to sound very typical, and all
these wii/continuum demons are a bit unfortunate as they don't
really
demonstrate the real ability of the system but make it look like it's
being aimed at a kind of "boys with their toys" market. But it's a
bloody expensive toy, and if that's what it is then I am
definitely
not going to spend all that money on it. For instance kyma is
supposed
to have a sonogram editor (like audio sculpt) but then there are no
demonstration of that. Is it really as good as AS for editing
the
sonogram? mhhh no way of knowing. Has anyone seen a demo or
tried the
sonogram editor?
They also state in their FAQ that most users use it in
conjunction
with a DAW which is fine but then if the time-line doesn't
allow
detailed mixing/editing then I'm not sure if it really is the
holy
grail everyone goes on about.
I initially imagined that it's a kind of real-time and bug free CDP
system plus a time-line, which is rather promising (at least on the OS
X I cannot manage to use CDP very smoothly with 24-bit audio so I gave
up in the end). But is it!?? Or is it just another fancy gear in the
studio for chucking out cliché sounds (which is the done thing in
Hollywood sound design!) and showing off the continuum keyboard?!
In the meantime I'm beginning to find my way through the
partikkel
opcode in parallel with Roads' Microsound. Very exciting :-)
Best,
Peiman
Post by Victor Lazzarini
There was one in Trinity College Dublin, one of the earlier
models.
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Apparently it suffered from lots of crashing and people did
not seem
Post by Victor Lazzarini
to use it much. It was quickly overtaken by general-
purpose
Post by Victor Lazzarini
computers (which is one of the reasons I never gave them too
much
Post by Victor Lazzarini
thought).
Victor
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Actually is there one in UK? Once I went inside the one they
have at
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
IRCAM, I was expecting a massively different environment
from what
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I'm
used to but it was rather disappointing. Although it will be
great
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
for
recording isolated sound sources I guess.
There is a strong rumour that there is one in my university,
but I
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
hve
never found it.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599>>
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
body
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599>
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
body
Post by Victor Lazzarini
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe csound"
Dr Victor Lazzarini, Senior Lecturer, Dept. of Music,
National University of Ireland, Maynooth



Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
Michael Gogins
2010-03-17 19:01:46 UTC
Permalink
I agree.

I've been making music with computers since 1983. I could always
afford the hardware, and software, I wanted. At various times I have
had dedicated hardware synthesizers, commercial studio software, etc.
Over time I have been driven to open source software exclusively, and
Csound pretty much exclusively, for the following reasons:

(1) Although I could always afford what I wanted, I can't say expense
is not an issue. Keeping up to date with hardware synthesizers,
Mathematica, Cubase, etc. starts to kind of add up.

(2) More importantly, computer music projects decay with time. Things
that used to run no longer run. This happens much more slowly with
open source software and very little indeed with Csound. This is a big
deal, because at times I go back to projects I did 10, 15 years ago
and redo them.

(3) Open source software such as Csound or PD tends to have more
useful communities. There are now decades' worth of freely available
patches, example pieces, etc. This also is a big deal. I use this
stuff. Commercial software tends to be used by people who are more
focused on working fast and not so interested in sharing what may be
for them stylistic tricks and technical advantages.

(4) Csound just keeps getting bigger and more powerful and does more
and sounds better. This is kind of a bottom line if you are mainly
interested just in making the best and most original music you can.

About performance, I reiterate that Csound must implement
multi-threading as soon as practical. Not doing this will cause it to
fail. You can bet the commercial music software people will do this
because it would be a big competitive edge. Max/MSP already has it in
a limited form. It would be an edge for us too. If Csound becomes
truly multi-threaded it will have nothing to fear in the performance
department, even compared with dedicated hardware.

Ease of use compared with Kyma etc. is another big topic about which I
will say more at another time.

Regards,
Mike
Post by V***@nuim.ie
If you ask my opinion, don't spend your money on outdated HW. It will only
get more and more out of date. Stick with well supported and maintained FOSS
systems, whichever is your choice (SC3, PD and Csound fit the bill well). My
2 cents, for what's worth (well, Eur 0.02 actually ;)
Victor
----- Original Message -----
Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 4:07 pm
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: [OT] wishes (was Re: Re: kyma x)
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I'm still battling with this. "To kyma or not to kyma?". The
hardware
available for sale is rather old, but the symbolic sound people assure
me that it is fully compatible with the latest software. But
then it's
another language to learn... To get it I'll end up with a €1000 hole
in my pocket which is not going to make life easier for the next few
months.
Mhhhhh the question is, is it worth it... To be honest I am a
little
sceptical, all the online demos seem to sound very typical, and all
these wii/continuum demons are a bit unfortunate as they don't really
demonstrate the real ability of the system but make it look like it's
being aimed at a kind of "boys with their toys" market. But it's a
bloody expensive toy, and if that's what it is then I am
definitely
not going to spend all that money on it. For instance kyma is
supposed
to have a sonogram editor (like audio sculpt) but then there are no
demonstration of that. Is it really as good as AS for editing
the
sonogram? mhhh no way of knowing. Has anyone seen a demo or
tried the
sonogram editor?
They also state in their FAQ that most users use it in
conjunction
with a DAW which is fine but then if the time-line doesn't
allow
detailed mixing/editing then I'm not sure if it really is the
holy
grail everyone goes on about.
I initially imagined that it's a kind of real-time and bug free CDP
system plus a time-line, which is rather promising (at least on the OS
X I cannot manage to use CDP very smoothly with 24-bit audio so I gave
up in the end). But is it!?? Or is it just another fancy gear in the
studio for chucking out cliché sounds (which is the done thing in
Hollywood sound design!) and showing off the continuum keyboard?!
In the meantime I'm beginning to find my way through the
partikkel
opcode in parallel with Roads' Microsound. Very exciting :-)
Best,
Peiman
Post by Victor Lazzarini
There was one in Trinity College Dublin, one of the earlier
models.
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Apparently it suffered from lots of crashing and people did
not seem
Post by Victor Lazzarini
to use it much. It was quickly overtaken by general-
purpose
Post by Victor Lazzarini
computers (which is one of the reasons I never gave them too
much
Post by Victor Lazzarini
thought).
Victor
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Actually is there one in UK? Once I went inside the one they
have at
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
IRCAM, I was expecting a massively different environment
from what
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I'm
used to but it was rather disappointing. Although it will be
great
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
for
recording isolated sound sources I guess.
There is a strong rumour that there is one in my university,
but I
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
hve
never found it.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599>>
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
body
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599>
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
body
Post by Victor Lazzarini
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
            https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe csound"
Dr Victor Lazzarini, Senior Lecturer, Dept. of Music,
National University of Ireland, Maynooth
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
Peiman Khosravi
2010-03-18 10:56:46 UTC
Permalink
While we are at it. Don't you think there should be some impressive
sounding sound examples on the csound page? Including synthes, score
techniques and sample processing's all classified?

Best,

Peiman
Post by Michael Gogins
I agree.
I've been making music with computers since 1983. I could always
afford the hardware, and software, I wanted. At various times I have
had dedicated hardware synthesizers, commercial studio software, etc.
Over time I have been driven to open source software exclusively, and
(1) Although I could always afford what I wanted, I can't say expense
is not an issue. Keeping up to date with hardware synthesizers,
Mathematica, Cubase, etc. starts to kind of add up.
(2) More importantly, computer music projects decay with time. Things
that used to run no longer run. This happens much more slowly with
open source software and very little indeed with Csound. This is a big
deal, because at times I go back to projects I did 10, 15 years ago
and redo them.
(3) Open source software such as Csound or PD tends to have more
useful communities. There are now decades' worth of freely available
patches, example pieces, etc. This also is a big deal. I use this
stuff. Commercial software tends to be used by people who are more
focused on working fast and not so interested in sharing what may be
for them stylistic tricks and technical advantages.
(4) Csound just keeps getting bigger and more powerful and does more
and sounds better. This is kind of a bottom line if you are mainly
interested just in making the best and most original music you can.
About performance, I reiterate that Csound must implement
multi-threading as soon as practical. Not doing this will cause it to
fail. You can bet the commercial music software people will do this
because it would be a big competitive edge. Max/MSP already has it in
a limited form. It would be an edge for us too. If Csound becomes
truly multi-threaded it will have nothing to fear in the performance
department, even compared with dedicated hardware.
Ease of use compared with Kyma etc. is another big topic about which I
will say more at another time.
Regards,
Mike
Post by V***@nuim.ie
If you ask my opinion, don't spend your money on outdated HW. It will only
get more and more out of date. Stick with well supported and
maintained FOSS
systems, whichever is your choice (SC3, PD and Csound fit the bill well). My
2 cents, for what's worth (well, Eur 0.02 actually ;)
Victor
----- Original Message -----
Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 4:07 pm
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: [OT] wishes
kyma x)
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I'm still battling with this. "To kyma or not to kyma?". The
hardware
available for sale is rather old, but the symbolic sound people assure
me that it is fully compatible with the latest software. But
then it's
another language to learn... To get it I'll end up with a €1000 hole
in my pocket which is not going to make life easier for the next few
months.
Mhhhhh the question is, is it worth it... To be honest I am a little
sceptical, all the online demos seem to sound very typical, and all
these wii/continuum demons are a bit unfortunate as they don't really
demonstrate the real ability of the system but make it look like it's
being aimed at a kind of "boys with their toys" market. But it's a
bloody expensive toy, and if that's what it is then I am
definitely
not going to spend all that money on it. For instance kyma is supposed
to have a sonogram editor (like audio sculpt) but then there are no
demonstration of that. Is it really as good as AS for editing the
sonogram? mhhh no way of knowing. Has anyone seen a demo or
tried the
sonogram editor?
They also state in their FAQ that most users use it in
conjunction
with a DAW which is fine but then if the time-line doesn't
allow
detailed mixing/editing then I'm not sure if it really is the holy
grail everyone goes on about.
I initially imagined that it's a kind of real-time and bug free CDP
system plus a time-line, which is rather promising (at least on the OS
X I cannot manage to use CDP very smoothly with 24-bit audio so I gave
up in the end). But is it!?? Or is it just another fancy gear in the
studio for chucking out cliché sounds (which is the done thing in
Hollywood sound design!) and showing off the continuum keyboard?!
In the meantime I'm beginning to find my way through the
partikkel
opcode in parallel with Roads' Microsound. Very exciting :-)
Best,
Peiman
Post by Victor Lazzarini
There was one in Trinity College Dublin, one of the earlier
models.
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Apparently it suffered from lots of crashing and people did
not seem
Post by Victor Lazzarini
to use it much. It was quickly overtaken by general-
purpose
Post by Victor Lazzarini
computers (which is one of the reasons I never gave them too
much
Post by Victor Lazzarini
thought).
Victor
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Actually is there one in UK? Once I went inside the one they
have at
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
IRCAM, I was expecting a massively different environment
from what
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I'm
used to but it was rather disappointing. Although it will be
great
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
for
recording isolated sound sources I guess.
There is a strong rumour that there is one in my university,
but I
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
hve
never found it.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599>>
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
body
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599>
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
body
Post by Victor Lazzarini
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe csound"
Dr Victor Lazzarini, Senior Lecturer, Dept. of Music,
National University of Ireland, Maynooth
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
andy fillebrown
2010-03-18 13:08:48 UTC
Permalink
Hi Peiman,

I've been making a list of mp3's people post to the list with the
intention of putting links up on the sourceforge site. This is what I
have so far...


Prent Rodgers
+ posted to csound list 3/13/09
http://bumpermusic.blogspot.com/2009/03/music-of-hoh-river-valley-mp3-versions.html

Aaron K. Johnson
+ posted to csound list 8/7/09
http://www.csounds.com/files/PuhlopsAndLaugua.mp3

Dave Phillips
+ posted to csound list 8/9/09
http://linux-sound.org/audio/studiodave-avs_p01_090805.mp3
http://linux-sound.org/p01-090805.csd

Dave Seidel
+ posted to csound list 10/21/09
http://www.archive.org/details/tmth06A

Michael Rhoades
+ posted to csound list 10/26/09
http://multimedia.music.concordia.ca/harvestmoon/Harvest_Moon_VI/HM_VI-Program.html

Michael Gogins
+ posted to csound list 11/4/09
http://michael-gogins.com/audio/mkg-2009-09-14-o.py.mp3

Dave Seidel
+ posted to csound list 11/21/09
http://mysterybear.net/article/43/elegy-for-jon

Dave Phillips
+ posted to csound list 1/2/10
http://linux-sound.org/audio/studiodave-avs_p38_091229.mp3
http://linux-sound.org/misc/p38-091229.csd

Dave Seidel
+ posted to csound list 1/25/10
http://mysterybear.net/article/45/gyre

Steven Yi
+ posted to csound list 3/9/10
http://www.kunstmusik.com/mp3/reminiscences.mp3
http://www.kunstmusik.com/projects/reminiscences.zip (blue & csd files)


---

I don't know how "impressive" they all are, but that's what's been
posted to the list in the past year, fwiw.

There were 2 pieces I was particularly impressed with before I started
keeping a list. One was "A door into spring", which was a
time-stretch of a dishwasher spring squeaking (I need to find this one
again). The other one was a very convincing string piece (maybe
physical modeling), but I don't know who recorded it or what the name
of it was -- so I haven't been able to find it again. A couple of
John ffitch's piece might qualify as "impressive" as well, but I'd
need to look up the links for those again.

If anybody has more links to recordings (preferably mp3's), please let me know.

Cheers,
~ andy.f



On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 6:56 AM, Peiman Khosravi
While we are at it. Don't you think there should be some impressive sounding
sound examples on the csound page? Including synthes, score techniques and
sample processing's all classified?
Best,
Peiman
Post by Michael Gogins
I agree.
I've been making music with computers since 1983. I could always
afford the hardware, and software, I wanted. At various times I have
had dedicated hardware synthesizers, commercial studio software, etc.
Over time I have been driven to open source software exclusively, and
(1) Although I could always afford what I wanted, I can't say expense
is not an issue. Keeping up to date with hardware synthesizers,
Mathematica, Cubase, etc. starts to kind of add up.
(2) More importantly, computer music projects decay with time. Things
that used to run no longer run. This happens much more slowly with
open source software and very little indeed with Csound. This is a big
deal, because at times I go back to projects I did 10, 15 years ago
and redo them.
(3) Open source software such as Csound or PD tends to have more
useful communities. There are now decades' worth of freely available
patches, example pieces, etc. This also is a big deal. I use this
stuff. Commercial software tends to be used by people who are more
focused on working fast and not so interested in sharing what may be
for them stylistic tricks and technical advantages.
(4) Csound just keeps getting bigger and more powerful and does more
and sounds better. This is kind of a bottom line if you are mainly
interested just in making the best and most original music you can.
About performance, I reiterate that Csound must implement
multi-threading as soon as practical. Not doing this will cause it to
fail. You can bet the commercial music software people will do this
because it would be a big competitive edge. Max/MSP already has it in
a limited form. It would be an edge for us too. If Csound becomes
truly multi-threaded it will have nothing to fear in the performance
department, even compared with dedicated hardware.
Ease of use compared with Kyma etc. is another big topic about which I
will say more at another time.
Regards,
Mike
Post by V***@nuim.ie
If you ask my opinion, don't spend your money on outdated HW. It will only
get more and more out of date. Stick with well supported and maintained FOSS
systems, whichever is your choice (SC3, PD and Csound fit the bill well). My
2 cents, for what's worth (well, Eur 0.02 actually ;)
Victor
----- Original Message -----
Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 4:07 pm
kyma x)
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I'm still battling with this. "To kyma or not to kyma?". The hardware
available for sale is rather old, but the symbolic sound people assure
me that it is fully compatible with the latest software. But then it's
another language to learn... To get it I'll end up with a €1000 hole
in my pocket which is not going to make life easier for the next few
months.
Mhhhhh the question is, is it worth it... To be honest I am a little
sceptical, all the online demos seem to sound very typical, and all
these wii/continuum demons are a bit unfortunate as they don't really
demonstrate the real ability of the system but make it look like it's
being aimed at a kind of "boys with their toys" market. But it's a
bloody expensive toy, and if that's what it is then I am
definitely
not going to spend all that money on it. For instance kyma is supposed
to have a sonogram editor (like audio sculpt) but then there are no
demonstration of that. Is it really as good as AS for editing the
sonogram? mhhh no way of knowing. Has anyone seen a demo or
tried the
sonogram editor?
They also state in their FAQ that most users use it in
conjunction
with a DAW which is fine but then if the time-line doesn't
allow
detailed mixing/editing then I'm not sure if it really is the holy
grail everyone goes on about.
I initially imagined that it's a kind of real-time and bug free CDP
system plus a time-line, which is rather promising (at least on the OS
X I cannot manage to use CDP very smoothly with 24-bit audio so I gave
up in the end). But is it!?? Or is it just another fancy gear in the
studio for chucking out cliché sounds (which is the done thing in
Hollywood sound design!) and showing off the continuum keyboard?!
In the meantime I'm beginning to find my way through the
partikkel
opcode in parallel with Roads' Microsound. Very exciting :-)
Best,
Peiman
Post by Victor Lazzarini
There was one in Trinity College Dublin, one of the earlier
models.
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Apparently it suffered from lots of crashing and people did
not seem
Post by Victor Lazzarini
to use it much. It was quickly overtaken by general-
purpose
Post by Victor Lazzarini
computers (which is one of the reasons I never gave them too
much
Post by Victor Lazzarini
thought).
Victor
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Actually is there one in UK? Once I went inside the one they
have at
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
IRCAM, I was expecting a massively different environment
from what
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I'm
used to but it was rather disappointing. Although it will be
great
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
for
recording isolated sound sources I guess.
There is a strong rumour that there is one in my university,
but I
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
hve
never found it.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599>>
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
body
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599>
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
body
Post by Victor Lazzarini
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe csound"
Dr Victor Lazzarini, Senior Lecturer, Dept. of Music,
National University of Ireland, Maynooth
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
Peiman Khosravi
2010-03-18 13:12:25 UTC
Permalink
Hi Andy,

It's great to have access to pieces, but I meant just short sound
examples that demonstrate specific techniques (and CSD included of
course) which sound attractive to the newcomer. They have something
like this on the kyma site (although the sounds aren't actually that
attractive to me!).

Best,

Peiman
Post by andy fillebrown
Hi Peiman,
I've been making a list of mp3's people post to the list with the
intention of putting links up on the sourceforge site. This is what I
have so far...
Prent Rodgers
+ posted to csound list 3/13/09
http://bumpermusic.blogspot.com/2009/03/music-of-hoh-river-valley-mp3-versions.html
Aaron K. Johnson
+ posted to csound list 8/7/09
http://www.csounds.com/files/PuhlopsAndLaugua.mp3
Dave Phillips
+ posted to csound list 8/9/09
http://linux-sound.org/audio/studiodave-avs_p01_090805.mp3
http://linux-sound.org/p01-090805.csd
Dave Seidel
+ posted to csound list 10/21/09
http://www.archive.org/details/tmth06A
Michael Rhoades
+ posted to csound list 10/26/09
http://multimedia.music.concordia.ca/harvestmoon/Harvest_Moon_VI/HM_VI-Program.html
Michael Gogins
+ posted to csound list 11/4/09
http://michael-gogins.com/audio/mkg-2009-09-14-o.py.mp3
Dave Seidel
+ posted to csound list 11/21/09
http://mysterybear.net/article/43/elegy-for-jon
Dave Phillips
+ posted to csound list 1/2/10
http://linux-sound.org/audio/studiodave-avs_p38_091229.mp3
http://linux-sound.org/misc/p38-091229.csd
Dave Seidel
+ posted to csound list 1/25/10
http://mysterybear.net/article/45/gyre
Steven Yi
+ posted to csound list 3/9/10
http://www.kunstmusik.com/mp3/reminiscences.mp3
http://www.kunstmusik.com/projects/reminiscences.zip (blue & csd files)
---
I don't know how "impressive" they all are, but that's what's been
posted to the list in the past year, fwiw.
There were 2 pieces I was particularly impressed with before I started
keeping a list. One was "A door into spring", which was a
time-stretch of a dishwasher spring squeaking (I need to find this one
again). The other one was a very convincing string piece (maybe
physical modeling), but I don't know who recorded it or what the name
of it was -- so I haven't been able to find it again. A couple of
John ffitch's piece might qualify as "impressive" as well, but I'd
need to look up the links for those again.
If anybody has more links to recordings (preferably mp3's), please let me know.
Cheers,
~ andy.f
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 6:56 AM, Peiman Khosravi
While we are at it. Don't you think there should be some impressive sounding
sound examples on the csound page? Including synthes, score
techniques and
sample processing's all classified?
Best,
Peiman
Post by Michael Gogins
I agree.
I've been making music with computers since 1983. I could always
afford the hardware, and software, I wanted. At various times I have
had dedicated hardware synthesizers, commercial studio software, etc.
Over time I have been driven to open source software exclusively, and
(1) Although I could always afford what I wanted, I can't say expense
is not an issue. Keeping up to date with hardware synthesizers,
Mathematica, Cubase, etc. starts to kind of add up.
(2) More importantly, computer music projects decay with time. Things
that used to run no longer run. This happens much more slowly with
open source software and very little indeed with Csound. This is a big
deal, because at times I go back to projects I did 10, 15 years ago
and redo them.
(3) Open source software such as Csound or PD tends to have more
useful communities. There are now decades' worth of freely available
patches, example pieces, etc. This also is a big deal. I use this
stuff. Commercial software tends to be used by people who are more
focused on working fast and not so interested in sharing what may be
for them stylistic tricks and technical advantages.
(4) Csound just keeps getting bigger and more powerful and does more
and sounds better. This is kind of a bottom line if you are mainly
interested just in making the best and most original music you can.
About performance, I reiterate that Csound must implement
multi-threading as soon as practical. Not doing this will cause it to
fail. You can bet the commercial music software people will do this
because it would be a big competitive edge. Max/MSP already has it in
a limited form. It would be an edge for us too. If Csound becomes
truly multi-threaded it will have nothing to fear in the performance
department, even compared with dedicated hardware.
Ease of use compared with Kyma etc. is another big topic about which I
will say more at another time.
Regards,
Mike
Post by V***@nuim.ie
If you ask my opinion, don't spend your money on outdated HW. It
will
only
get more and more out of date. Stick with well supported and
maintained
FOSS
systems, whichever is your choice (SC3, PD and Csound fit the
bill well).
My
2 cents, for what's worth (well, Eur 0.02 actually ;)
Victor
----- Original Message -----
Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 4:07 pm
kyma x)
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I'm still battling with this. "To kyma or not to kyma?". The hardware
available for sale is rather old, but the symbolic sound people assure
me that it is fully compatible with the latest software. But then it's
another language to learn... To get it I'll end up with a €1000 hole
in my pocket which is not going to make life easier for the next few
months.
Mhhhhh the question is, is it worth it... To be honest I am a little
sceptical, all the online demos seem to sound very typical, and all
these wii/continuum demons are a bit unfortunate as they don't really
demonstrate the real ability of the system but make it look like it's
being aimed at a kind of "boys with their toys" market. But it's a
bloody expensive toy, and if that's what it is then I am
definitely
not going to spend all that money on it. For instance kyma is supposed
to have a sonogram editor (like audio sculpt) but then there are no
demonstration of that. Is it really as good as AS for editing the
sonogram? mhhh no way of knowing. Has anyone seen a demo or tried the
sonogram editor?
They also state in their FAQ that most users use it in
conjunction
with a DAW which is fine but then if the time-line doesn't
allow
detailed mixing/editing then I'm not sure if it really is the holy
grail everyone goes on about.
I initially imagined that it's a kind of real-time and bug free CDP
system plus a time-line, which is rather promising (at least on the OS
X I cannot manage to use CDP very smoothly with 24-bit audio so I gave
up in the end). But is it!?? Or is it just another fancy gear in the
studio for chucking out cliché sounds (which is the done thing in
Hollywood sound design!) and showing off the continuum keyboard?!
In the meantime I'm beginning to find my way through the
partikkel
opcode in parallel with Roads' Microsound. Very exciting :-)
Best,
Peiman
Post by Victor Lazzarini
There was one in Trinity College Dublin, one of the earlier
models.
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Apparently it suffered from lots of crashing and people did
not seem
Post by Victor Lazzarini
to use it much. It was quickly overtaken by general-
purpose
Post by Victor Lazzarini
computers (which is one of the reasons I never gave them too
much
Post by Victor Lazzarini
thought).
Victor
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Actually is there one in UK? Once I went inside the one they
have at
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
IRCAM, I was expecting a massively different environment
from what
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I'm
used to but it was rather disappointing. Although it will be
great
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
for
recording isolated sound sources I guess.
There is a strong rumour that there is one in my university,
but I
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
hve
never found it.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599>>
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
body
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599>
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
body
Post by Victor Lazzarini
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Dr Victor Lazzarini, Senior Lecturer, Dept. of Music,
National University of Ireland, Maynooth
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?
group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe
csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe
csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
Michael Gogins
2010-03-18 13:15:33 UTC
Permalink
You can link to anything on my personal Web site at
http://www.michael-gogins.com. Just about everything was done using
Csound.

Regards,
Mike

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:08 AM, andy fillebrown
Post by andy fillebrown
Hi Peiman,
I've been making a list of mp3's people post to the list with the
intention of putting links up on the sourceforge site.  This is what I
have so far...
Prent Rodgers
       + posted to csound list 3/13/09
               http://bumpermusic.blogspot.com/2009/03/music-of-hoh-river-valley-mp3-versions.html
Aaron K. Johnson
       + posted to csound list 8/7/09
               http://www.csounds.com/files/PuhlopsAndLaugua.mp3
Dave Phillips
       + posted to csound list 8/9/09
               http://linux-sound.org/audio/studiodave-avs_p01_090805.mp3
               http://linux-sound.org/p01-090805.csd
Dave Seidel
       + posted to csound list 10/21/09
               http://www.archive.org/details/tmth06A
Michael Rhoades
       + posted to csound list 10/26/09
               http://multimedia.music.concordia.ca/harvestmoon/Harvest_Moon_VI/HM_VI-Program.html
Michael Gogins
       + posted to csound list 11/4/09
               http://michael-gogins.com/audio/mkg-2009-09-14-o.py.mp3
Dave Seidel
       + posted to csound list 11/21/09
               http://mysterybear.net/article/43/elegy-for-jon
Dave Phillips
       + posted to csound list 1/2/10
               http://linux-sound.org/audio/studiodave-avs_p38_091229.mp3
               http://linux-sound.org/misc/p38-091229.csd
Dave Seidel
       + posted to csound list 1/25/10
               http://mysterybear.net/article/45/gyre
Steven Yi
       + posted to csound list 3/9/10
               http://www.kunstmusik.com/mp3/reminiscences.mp3
               http://www.kunstmusik.com/projects/reminiscences.zip  (blue & csd files)
---
I don't know how "impressive" they all are, but that's what's been
posted to the list in the past year, fwiw.
There were 2 pieces I was particularly impressed with before I started
keeping a list.  One was "A door into spring", which was a
time-stretch of a dishwasher spring squeaking (I need to find this one
again).  The other one was a very convincing string piece (maybe
physical modeling), but I don't know who recorded it or what the name
of it was -- so I haven't been able to find it again.  A couple of
John ffitch's piece might qualify as "impressive" as well, but I'd
need to look up the links for those again.
If anybody has more links to recordings (preferably mp3's), please let me know.
Cheers,
~ andy.f
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 6:56 AM, Peiman Khosravi
While we are at it. Don't you think there should be some impressive sounding
sound examples on the csound page? Including synthes, score techniques and
sample processing's all classified?
Best,
Peiman
Post by Michael Gogins
I agree.
I've been making music with computers since 1983. I could always
afford the hardware, and software, I wanted. At various times I have
had dedicated hardware synthesizers, commercial studio software, etc.
Over time I have been driven to open source software exclusively, and
(1) Although I could always afford what I wanted, I can't say expense
is not an issue. Keeping up to date with hardware synthesizers,
Mathematica, Cubase, etc. starts to kind of add up.
(2) More importantly, computer music projects decay with time. Things
that used to run no longer run. This happens much more slowly with
open source software and very little indeed with Csound. This is a big
deal, because at times I go back to projects I did 10, 15 years ago
and redo them.
(3) Open source software such as Csound or PD tends to have more
useful communities. There are now decades' worth of freely available
patches, example pieces, etc. This also is a big deal. I use this
stuff. Commercial software tends to be used by people who are more
focused on working fast and not so interested in sharing what may be
for them stylistic tricks and technical advantages.
(4) Csound just keeps getting bigger and more powerful and does more
and sounds better. This is kind of a bottom line if you are mainly
interested just in making the best and most original music you can.
About performance, I reiterate that Csound must implement
multi-threading as soon as practical. Not doing this will cause it to
fail. You can bet the commercial music software people will do this
because it would be a big competitive edge. Max/MSP already has it in
a limited form. It would be an edge for us too. If Csound becomes
truly multi-threaded it will have nothing to fear in the performance
department, even compared with dedicated hardware.
Ease of use compared with Kyma etc. is another big topic about which I
will say more at another time.
Regards,
Mike
Post by V***@nuim.ie
If you ask my opinion, don't spend your money on outdated HW. It will only
get more and more out of date. Stick with well supported and maintained FOSS
systems, whichever is your choice (SC3, PD and Csound fit the bill well). My
2 cents, for what's worth (well, Eur 0.02 actually ;)
Victor
----- Original Message -----
Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 4:07 pm
kyma x)
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I'm still battling with this. "To kyma or not to kyma?". The hardware
available for sale is rather old, but the symbolic sound people assure
me that it is fully compatible with the latest software. But then it's
another language to learn... To get it I'll end up with a €1000 hole
in my pocket which is not going to make life easier for the next few
months.
Mhhhhh the question is, is it worth it... To be honest I am a little
sceptical, all the online demos seem to sound very typical, and all
these wii/continuum demons are a bit unfortunate as they don't really
demonstrate the real ability of the system but make it look like it's
being aimed at a kind of "boys with their toys" market. But it's a
bloody expensive toy, and if that's what it is then I am
definitely
not going to spend all that money on it. For instance kyma is supposed
to have a sonogram editor (like audio sculpt) but then there are no
demonstration of that. Is it really as good as AS for editing the
sonogram? mhhh no way of knowing. Has anyone seen a demo or tried the
sonogram editor?
They also state in their FAQ that most users use it in
conjunction
with a DAW which is fine but then if the time-line doesn't
allow
detailed mixing/editing then I'm not sure if it really is the holy
grail everyone goes on about.
I initially imagined that it's a kind of real-time and bug free CDP
system plus a time-line, which is rather promising (at least on the OS
X I cannot manage to use CDP very smoothly with 24-bit audio so I gave
up in the end). But is it!?? Or is it just another fancy gear in the
studio for chucking out cliché sounds (which is the done thing in
Hollywood sound design!) and showing off the continuum keyboard?!
In the meantime I'm beginning to find my way through the
partikkel
opcode in parallel with Roads' Microsound. Very exciting :-)
Best,
Peiman
Post by Victor Lazzarini
There was one in Trinity College Dublin, one of the earlier
models.
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Apparently it suffered from lots of crashing and people did
not seem
Post by Victor Lazzarini
to use it much. It was quickly overtaken by general-
purpose
Post by Victor Lazzarini
computers (which is one of the reasons I never gave them too
much
Post by Victor Lazzarini
thought).
Victor
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Actually is there one in UK? Once I went inside the one they
have at
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
IRCAM, I was expecting a massively different environment
from what
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I'm
used to but it was rather disappointing. Although it will be
great
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
for
recording isolated sound sources I guess.
There is a strong rumour that there is one in my university,
but I
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
hve
never found it.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599>>
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
body
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599>
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
body
Post by Victor Lazzarini
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Dr Victor Lazzarini, Senior Lecturer, Dept. of Music,
National University of Ireland, Maynooth
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
andy fillebrown
2010-03-18 13:22:59 UTC
Permalink
Hi Mike,
The only mp3 I can link to externally is
http://michael-gogins.com/audio/mkg-2009-09-14-o.py.mp3. The other 3
seem to be trapped in .swf links.



On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:15 AM, Michael Gogins
Post by Michael Gogins
You can link to anything on my personal Web site at
http://www.michael-gogins.com. Just about everything was done using
Csound.
Regards,
Mike
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 9:08 AM, andy fillebrown
Post by andy fillebrown
Hi Peiman,
I've been making a list of mp3's people post to the list with the
intention of putting links up on the sourceforge site.  This is what I
have so far...
Prent Rodgers
       + posted to csound list 3/13/09
               http://bumpermusic.blogspot.com/2009/03/music-of-hoh-river-valley-mp3-versions.html
Aaron K. Johnson
       + posted to csound list 8/7/09
               http://www.csounds.com/files/PuhlopsAndLaugua.mp3
Dave Phillips
       + posted to csound list 8/9/09
               http://linux-sound.org/audio/studiodave-avs_p01_090805.mp3
               http://linux-sound.org/p01-090805.csd
Dave Seidel
       + posted to csound list 10/21/09
               http://www.archive.org/details/tmth06A
Michael Rhoades
       + posted to csound list 10/26/09
               http://multimedia.music.concordia.ca/harvestmoon/Harvest_Moon_VI/HM_VI-Program.html
Michael Gogins
       + posted to csound list 11/4/09
               http://michael-gogins.com/audio/mkg-2009-09-14-o.py.mp3
Dave Seidel
       + posted to csound list 11/21/09
               http://mysterybear.net/article/43/elegy-for-jon
Dave Phillips
       + posted to csound list 1/2/10
               http://linux-sound.org/audio/studiodave-avs_p38_091229.mp3
               http://linux-sound.org/misc/p38-091229.csd
Dave Seidel
       + posted to csound list 1/25/10
               http://mysterybear.net/article/45/gyre
Steven Yi
       + posted to csound list 3/9/10
               http://www.kunstmusik.com/mp3/reminiscences.mp3
               http://www.kunstmusik.com/projects/reminiscences.zip  (blue & csd files)
---
I don't know how "impressive" they all are, but that's what's been
posted to the list in the past year, fwiw.
There were 2 pieces I was particularly impressed with before I started
keeping a list.  One was "A door into spring", which was a
time-stretch of a dishwasher spring squeaking (I need to find this one
again).  The other one was a very convincing string piece (maybe
physical modeling), but I don't know who recorded it or what the name
of it was -- so I haven't been able to find it again.  A couple of
John ffitch's piece might qualify as "impressive" as well, but I'd
need to look up the links for those again.
If anybody has more links to recordings (preferably mp3's), please let me know.
Cheers,
~ andy.f
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 6:56 AM, Peiman Khosravi
While we are at it. Don't you think there should be some impressive sounding
sound examples on the csound page? Including synthes, score techniques and
sample processing's all classified?
Best,
Peiman
Post by Michael Gogins
I agree.
I've been making music with computers since 1983. I could always
afford the hardware, and software, I wanted. At various times I have
had dedicated hardware synthesizers, commercial studio software, etc.
Over time I have been driven to open source software exclusively, and
(1) Although I could always afford what I wanted, I can't say expense
is not an issue. Keeping up to date with hardware synthesizers,
Mathematica, Cubase, etc. starts to kind of add up.
(2) More importantly, computer music projects decay with time. Things
that used to run no longer run. This happens much more slowly with
open source software and very little indeed with Csound. This is a big
deal, because at times I go back to projects I did 10, 15 years ago
and redo them.
(3) Open source software such as Csound or PD tends to have more
useful communities. There are now decades' worth of freely available
patches, example pieces, etc. This also is a big deal. I use this
stuff. Commercial software tends to be used by people who are more
focused on working fast and not so interested in sharing what may be
for them stylistic tricks and technical advantages.
(4) Csound just keeps getting bigger and more powerful and does more
and sounds better. This is kind of a bottom line if you are mainly
interested just in making the best and most original music you can.
About performance, I reiterate that Csound must implement
multi-threading as soon as practical. Not doing this will cause it to
fail. You can bet the commercial music software people will do this
because it would be a big competitive edge. Max/MSP already has it in
a limited form. It would be an edge for us too. If Csound becomes
truly multi-threaded it will have nothing to fear in the performance
department, even compared with dedicated hardware.
Ease of use compared with Kyma etc. is another big topic about which I
will say more at another time.
Regards,
Mike
Post by V***@nuim.ie
If you ask my opinion, don't spend your money on outdated HW. It will only
get more and more out of date. Stick with well supported and maintained FOSS
systems, whichever is your choice (SC3, PD and Csound fit the bill well). My
2 cents, for what's worth (well, Eur 0.02 actually ;)
Victor
----- Original Message -----
Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 4:07 pm
kyma x)
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I'm still battling with this. "To kyma or not to kyma?". The hardware
available for sale is rather old, but the symbolic sound people assure
me that it is fully compatible with the latest software. But then it's
another language to learn... To get it I'll end up with a €1000 hole
in my pocket which is not going to make life easier for the next few
months.
Mhhhhh the question is, is it worth it... To be honest I am a little
sceptical, all the online demos seem to sound very typical, and all
these wii/continuum demons are a bit unfortunate as they don't really
demonstrate the real ability of the system but make it look like it's
being aimed at a kind of "boys with their toys" market. But it's a
bloody expensive toy, and if that's what it is then I am
definitely
not going to spend all that money on it. For instance kyma is supposed
to have a sonogram editor (like audio sculpt) but then there are no
demonstration of that. Is it really as good as AS for editing the
sonogram? mhhh no way of knowing. Has anyone seen a demo or tried the
sonogram editor?
They also state in their FAQ that most users use it in
conjunction
with a DAW which is fine but then if the time-line doesn't allow
detailed mixing/editing then I'm not sure if it really is the holy
grail everyone goes on about.
I initially imagined that it's a kind of real-time and bug free CDP
system plus a time-line, which is rather promising (at least on the OS
X I cannot manage to use CDP very smoothly with 24-bit audio so I gave
up in the end). But is it!?? Or is it just another fancy gear in the
studio for chucking out cliché sounds (which is the done thing in
Hollywood sound design!) and showing off the continuum keyboard?!
In the meantime I'm beginning to find my way through the
partikkel
opcode in parallel with Roads' Microsound. Very exciting :-)
Best,
Peiman
Post by Victor Lazzarini
There was one in Trinity College Dublin, one of the earlier
models.
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Apparently it suffered from lots of crashing and people did
not seem
Post by Victor Lazzarini
to use it much. It was quickly overtaken by general-
purpose
Post by Victor Lazzarini
computers (which is one of the reasons I never gave them too
much
Post by Victor Lazzarini
thought).
Victor
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Actually is there one in UK? Once I went inside the one they
have at
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
IRCAM, I was expecting a massively different environment
from what
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I'm
used to but it was rather disappointing. Although it will be
great
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
for
recording isolated sound sources I guess.
There is a strong rumour that there is one in my university,
but I
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
hve
never found it.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599>>
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
body
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599>
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
body
Post by Victor Lazzarini
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Dr Victor Lazzarini, Senior Lecturer, Dept. of Music,
National University of Ireland, Maynooth
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
Art Hunkins
2010-03-25 16:43:34 UTC
Permalink
There are demo mp3's of many of my csound compositions at my website home
page: http://www.arthunkins.com

Art Hunkins

----- Original Message -----
From: "andy fillebrown" <***@gmail.com>
To: <***@lists.bath.ac.uk>
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:08 AM
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: [OT]
wishes (was Re: Re: kyma x)


Hi Peiman,

I've been making a list of mp3's people post to the list with the
intention of putting links up on the sourceforge site. This is what I
have so far...


Prent Rodgers
+ posted to csound list 3/13/09
http://bumpermusic.blogspot.com/2009/03/music-of-hoh-river-valley-mp3-versions.html

Aaron K. Johnson
+ posted to csound list 8/7/09
http://www.csounds.com/files/PuhlopsAndLaugua.mp3

Dave Phillips
+ posted to csound list 8/9/09
http://linux-sound.org/audio/studiodave-avs_p01_090805.mp3
http://linux-sound.org/p01-090805.csd

Dave Seidel
+ posted to csound list 10/21/09
http://www.archive.org/details/tmth06A

Michael Rhoades
+ posted to csound list 10/26/09
http://multimedia.music.concordia.ca/harvestmoon/Harvest_Moon_VI/HM_VI-Program.html

Michael Gogins
+ posted to csound list 11/4/09
http://michael-gogins.com/audio/mkg-2009-09-14-o.py.mp3

Dave Seidel
+ posted to csound list 11/21/09
http://mysterybear.net/article/43/elegy-for-jon

Dave Phillips
+ posted to csound list 1/2/10
http://linux-sound.org/audio/studiodave-avs_p38_091229.mp3
http://linux-sound.org/misc/p38-091229.csd

Dave Seidel
+ posted to csound list 1/25/10
http://mysterybear.net/article/45/gyre

Steven Yi
+ posted to csound list 3/9/10
http://www.kunstmusik.com/mp3/reminiscences.mp3
http://www.kunstmusik.com/projects/reminiscences.zip (blue & csd files)


---

I don't know how "impressive" they all are, but that's what's been
posted to the list in the past year, fwiw.

There were 2 pieces I was particularly impressed with before I started
keeping a list. One was "A door into spring", which was a
time-stretch of a dishwasher spring squeaking (I need to find this one
again). The other one was a very convincing string piece (maybe
physical modeling), but I don't know who recorded it or what the name
of it was -- so I haven't been able to find it again. A couple of
John ffitch's piece might qualify as "impressive" as well, but I'd
need to look up the links for those again.

If anybody has more links to recordings (preferably mp3's), please let me
know.

Cheers,
~ andy.f



On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 6:56 AM, Peiman Khosravi
While we are at it. Don't you think there should be some impressive sounding
sound examples on the csound page? Including synthes, score techniques and
sample processing's all classified?
Best,
Peiman
Post by Michael Gogins
I agree.
I've been making music with computers since 1983. I could always
afford the hardware, and software, I wanted. At various times I have
had dedicated hardware synthesizers, commercial studio software, etc.
Over time I have been driven to open source software exclusively, and
(1) Although I could always afford what I wanted, I can't say expense
is not an issue. Keeping up to date with hardware synthesizers,
Mathematica, Cubase, etc. starts to kind of add up.
(2) More importantly, computer music projects decay with time. Things
that used to run no longer run. This happens much more slowly with
open source software and very little indeed with Csound. This is a big
deal, because at times I go back to projects I did 10, 15 years ago
and redo them.
(3) Open source software such as Csound or PD tends to have more
useful communities. There are now decades' worth of freely available
patches, example pieces, etc. This also is a big deal. I use this
stuff. Commercial software tends to be used by people who are more
focused on working fast and not so interested in sharing what may be
for them stylistic tricks and technical advantages.
(4) Csound just keeps getting bigger and more powerful and does more
and sounds better. This is kind of a bottom line if you are mainly
interested just in making the best and most original music you can.
About performance, I reiterate that Csound must implement
multi-threading as soon as practical. Not doing this will cause it to
fail. You can bet the commercial music software people will do this
because it would be a big competitive edge. Max/MSP already has it in
a limited form. It would be an edge for us too. If Csound becomes
truly multi-threaded it will have nothing to fear in the performance
department, even compared with dedicated hardware.
Ease of use compared with Kyma etc. is another big topic about which I
will say more at another time.
Regards,
Mike
Post by V***@nuim.ie
If you ask my opinion, don't spend your money on outdated HW. It will only
get more and more out of date. Stick with well supported and maintained FOSS
systems, whichever is your choice (SC3, PD and Csound fit the bill
well).
My
2 cents, for what's worth (well, Eur 0.02 actually ;)
Victor
----- Original Message -----
Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 4:07 pm
kyma x)
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I'm still battling with this. "To kyma or not to kyma?". The hardware
available for sale is rather old, but the symbolic sound people assure
me that it is fully compatible with the latest software. But then it's
another language to learn... To get it I'll end up with a €1000 hole
in my pocket which is not going to make life easier for the next few
months.
Mhhhhh the question is, is it worth it... To be honest I am a little
sceptical, all the online demos seem to sound very typical, and all
these wii/continuum demons are a bit unfortunate as they don't really
demonstrate the real ability of the system but make it look like it's
being aimed at a kind of "boys with their toys" market. But it's a
bloody expensive toy, and if that's what it is then I am
definitely
not going to spend all that money on it. For instance kyma is supposed
to have a sonogram editor (like audio sculpt) but then there are no
demonstration of that. Is it really as good as AS for editing the
sonogram? mhhh no way of knowing. Has anyone seen a demo or
tried the
sonogram editor?
They also state in their FAQ that most users use it in
conjunction
with a DAW which is fine but then if the time-line doesn't
allow
detailed mixing/editing then I'm not sure if it really is the holy
grail everyone goes on about.
I initially imagined that it's a kind of real-time and bug free CDP
system plus a time-line, which is rather promising (at least on the OS
X I cannot manage to use CDP very smoothly with 24-bit audio so I gave
up in the end). But is it!?? Or is it just another fancy gear in the
studio for chucking out cliché sounds (which is the done thing in
Hollywood sound design!) and showing off the continuum keyboard?!
In the meantime I'm beginning to find my way through the
partikkel
opcode in parallel with Roads' Microsound. Very exciting :-)
Best,
Peiman
Post by Victor Lazzarini
There was one in Trinity College Dublin, one of the earlier
models.
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Apparently it suffered from lots of crashing and people did
not seem
Post by Victor Lazzarini
to use it much. It was quickly overtaken by general-
purpose
Post by Victor Lazzarini
computers (which is one of the reasons I never gave them too
much
Post by Victor Lazzarini
thought).
Victor
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Actually is there one in UK? Once I went inside the one they
have at
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
IRCAM, I was expecting a massively different environment
from what
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I'm
used to but it was rather disappointing. Although it will be
great
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
for
recording isolated sound sources I guess.
There is a strong rumour that there is one in my university,
but I
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
hve
never found it.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599>>
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
body
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599>
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
body
Post by Victor Lazzarini
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe csound"
Dr Victor Lazzarini, Senior Lecturer, Dept. of Music,
National University of Ireland, Maynooth
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe
csound"

=



Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
andy fillebrown
2010-03-25 16:59:47 UTC
Permalink
Hi Art,

Thanks for the info, but none of the .mp3 links seem to be working --
"Unable to Connect" etc etc...

~ andy.f
Post by Art Hunkins
There are demo mp3's of many of my csound compositions at my website home
page: http://www.arthunkins.com
Art Hunkins
----- Original Message ----- From: "andy fillebrown"
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:08 AM
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: [OT]
wishes (was Re: Re: kyma x)
Hi Peiman,
I've been making a list of mp3's people post to the list with the
intention of putting links up on the sourceforge site.  This is what I
have so far...
Prent Rodgers
+ posted to csound list 3/13/09
http://bumpermusic.blogspot.com/2009/03/music-of-hoh-river-valley-mp3-versions.html
Aaron K. Johnson
+ posted to csound list 8/7/09
http://www.csounds.com/files/PuhlopsAndLaugua.mp3
Dave Phillips
+ posted to csound list 8/9/09
http://linux-sound.org/audio/studiodave-avs_p01_090805.mp3
http://linux-sound.org/p01-090805.csd
Dave Seidel
+ posted to csound list 10/21/09
http://www.archive.org/details/tmth06A
Michael Rhoades
+ posted to csound list 10/26/09
http://multimedia.music.concordia.ca/harvestmoon/Harvest_Moon_VI/HM_VI-Program.html
Michael Gogins
+ posted to csound list 11/4/09
http://michael-gogins.com/audio/mkg-2009-09-14-o.py.mp3
Dave Seidel
+ posted to csound list 11/21/09
http://mysterybear.net/article/43/elegy-for-jon
Dave Phillips
+ posted to csound list 1/2/10
http://linux-sound.org/audio/studiodave-avs_p38_091229.mp3
http://linux-sound.org/misc/p38-091229.csd
Dave Seidel
+ posted to csound list 1/25/10
http://mysterybear.net/article/45/gyre
Steven Yi
+ posted to csound list 3/9/10
http://www.kunstmusik.com/mp3/reminiscences.mp3
http://www.kunstmusik.com/projects/reminiscences.zip  (blue & csd files)
---
I don't know how "impressive" they all are, but that's what's been
posted to the list in the past year, fwiw.
There were 2 pieces I was particularly impressed with before I started
keeping a list.  One was "A door into spring", which was a
time-stretch of a dishwasher spring squeaking (I need to find this one
again).  The other one was a very convincing string piece (maybe
physical modeling), but I don't know who recorded it or what the name
of it was -- so I haven't been able to find it again.  A couple of
John ffitch's piece might qualify as "impressive" as well, but I'd
need to look up the links for those again.
If anybody has more links to recordings (preferably mp3's), please let me know.
Cheers,
~ andy.f
On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 6:56 AM, Peiman Khosravi
While we are at it. Don't you think there should be some impressive sounding
sound examples on the csound page? Including synthes, score techniques and
sample processing's all classified?
Best,
Peiman
Post by Michael Gogins
I agree.
I've been making music with computers since 1983. I could always
afford the hardware, and software, I wanted. At various times I have
had dedicated hardware synthesizers, commercial studio software, etc.
Over time I have been driven to open source software exclusively, and
(1) Although I could always afford what I wanted, I can't say expense
is not an issue. Keeping up to date with hardware synthesizers,
Mathematica, Cubase, etc. starts to kind of add up.
(2) More importantly, computer music projects decay with time. Things
that used to run no longer run. This happens much more slowly with
open source software and very little indeed with Csound. This is a big
deal, because at times I go back to projects I did 10, 15 years ago
and redo them.
(3) Open source software such as Csound or PD tends to have more
useful communities. There are now decades' worth of freely available
patches, example pieces, etc. This also is a big deal. I use this
stuff. Commercial software tends to be used by people who are more
focused on working fast and not so interested in sharing what may be
for them stylistic tricks and technical advantages.
(4) Csound just keeps getting bigger and more powerful and does more
and sounds better. This is kind of a bottom line if you are mainly
interested just in making the best and most original music you can.
About performance, I reiterate that Csound must implement
multi-threading as soon as practical. Not doing this will cause it to
fail. You can bet the commercial music software people will do this
because it would be a big competitive edge. Max/MSP already has it in
a limited form. It would be an edge for us too. If Csound becomes
truly multi-threaded it will have nothing to fear in the performance
department, even compared with dedicated hardware.
Ease of use compared with Kyma etc. is another big topic about which I
will say more at another time.
Regards,
Mike
Post by V***@nuim.ie
If you ask my opinion, don't spend your money on outdated HW. It will only
get more and more out of date. Stick with well supported and maintained FOSS
systems, whichever is your choice (SC3, PD and Csound fit the bill
well).
My
2 cents, for what's worth (well, Eur 0.02 actually ;)
Victor
----- Original Message -----
Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 4:07 pm
kyma x)
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I'm still battling with this. "To kyma or not to kyma?". The hardware
available for sale is rather old, but the symbolic sound people assure
me that it is fully compatible with the latest software. But then it's
another language to learn... To get it I'll end up with a €1000 hole
in my pocket which is not going to make life easier for the next few
months.
Mhhhhh the question is, is it worth it... To be honest I am a little
sceptical, all the online demos seem to sound very typical, and all
these wii/continuum demons are a bit unfortunate as they don't really
demonstrate the real ability of the system but make it look like it's
being aimed at a kind of "boys with their toys" market. But it's a
bloody expensive toy, and if that's what it is then I am
definitely
not going to spend all that money on it. For instance kyma is supposed
to have a sonogram editor (like audio sculpt) but then there are no
demonstration of that. Is it really as good as AS for editing the
sonogram? mhhh no way of knowing. Has anyone seen a demo or tried the
sonogram editor?
They also state in their FAQ that most users use it in
conjunction
with a DAW which is fine but then if the time-line doesn't
allow
detailed mixing/editing then I'm not sure if it really is the holy
grail everyone goes on about.
I initially imagined that it's a kind of real-time and bug free CDP
system plus a time-line, which is rather promising (at least on the OS
X I cannot manage to use CDP very smoothly with 24-bit audio so I gave
up in the end). But is it!?? Or is it just another fancy gear in the
studio for chucking out cliché sounds (which is the done thing in
Hollywood sound design!) and showing off the continuum keyboard?!
In the meantime I'm beginning to find my way through the
partikkel
opcode in parallel with Roads' Microsound. Very exciting :-)
Best,
Peiman
Post by Victor Lazzarini
There was one in Trinity College Dublin, one of the earlier
models.
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Apparently it suffered from lots of crashing and people did
not seem
Post by Victor Lazzarini
to use it much. It was quickly overtaken by general-
purpose
Post by Victor Lazzarini
computers (which is one of the reasons I never gave them too
much
Post by Victor Lazzarini
thought).
Victor
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Actually is there one in UK? Once I went inside the one they
have at
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
IRCAM, I was expecting a massively different environment
from what
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I'm
used to but it was rather disappointing. Although it will be
great
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
for
recording isolated sound sources I guess.
There is a strong rumour that there is one in my university,
but I
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
hve
never found it.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599>>
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
body
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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body
Post by Victor Lazzarini
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Dr Victor Lazzarini, Senior Lecturer, Dept. of Music,
National University of Ireland, Maynooth
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
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=
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Malte Steiner
2010-03-18 17:34:42 UTC
Permalink
Also making electronic music since 1983, still buying hardware
equipment. Michael Gogins is right about Open Source and thats why I am
using it more and more. I never thought that one device or software
could replace another one (do you remember the times where everyone
threw out analogue synths in the 80s in favor for stuff like DX7? ) , I
keep adding. Sometimes I like to work with CSound, sometimes PD and
another day it has to be an actual analogue modular (in my case a
Doepfer A100) when I cant stand computers.
Recently I had the opportunity to work with a Kyma Capybara system but I
found it to be rather odd, comming from a Max and PD background. You
grab a preset patch and change it but AFAIK you cant build something
from scratch. Its nice to have a dedicated DSP box but you totally
depend on the software which you always need to run, even if you dont
want to change anything, just playing your patches.
The current systems, Paca and Pacarana, dont have A/D/A converters
anymore, so an external Firewire or USB converterbox is to be added to
the price and only a handful is supported.

I have a sweet spot for Eventide DSP FX boxes like the H8000 but I guess
it wouldn't add something vast new to my studio. Their patch editor
looks like PD and is rather complicated to setup, so why not using PD?

So these feelings of need, the socalled Gear Acquisition Syndrome ,are
just sentimental. The only benefit I guess are the loads of high quality
presets that Eventide and Kyma comes with. My understanding of digital
signal processing is rather limited so it would help.

Cheers,

Malte
Michael Gogins
2010-03-18 17:54:31 UTC
Permalink
I am certain that you can create things from scratch in Kyma, but you
may need to program in SmallTalk to do it.

Regards,
Mike
Also making electronic music since 1983, still buying hardware equipment.
Michael Gogins is right about Open Source and thats why I am using it more
and more. I never thought that one device or software could replace another
one (do you remember the times where everyone threw out analogue synths in
the 80s in favor for stuff like DX7? ) , I keep adding. Sometimes I like to
work with CSound, sometimes PD and another day it has to be an actual
analogue modular (in my case a Doepfer A100) when I cant stand computers.
Recently I had the opportunity to work with a Kyma Capybara system but I
found it to be rather odd, comming from a Max and PD background. You grab a
preset patch and change it but AFAIK you cant build something from scratch.
Its nice to have a dedicated DSP box but you totally depend on the software
which you always need to run, even if you dont want to change anything, just
playing your patches.
The current systems, Paca and Pacarana, dont have A/D/A converters anymore,
so an external Firewire or USB converterbox is to be added to the price and
only a handful is supported.
I have a sweet spot for Eventide DSP FX boxes like the H8000 but I guess it
wouldn't add something vast new to my studio. Their patch editor looks like
PD and is rather complicated to setup, so why not using PD?
So these feelings of need, the socalled Gear Acquisition Syndrome ,are just
sentimental. The only benefit I guess are the loads of high quality presets
that Eventide and Kyma comes with. My understanding of digital signal
processing is rather limited so it would help.
Cheers,
Malte
--
----
media art + development
http://www.block4.com
http://twitter.com/herrsteiner
http://www.facebook.com/herrsteiner
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


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Peiman Khosravi
2010-03-18 10:54:47 UTC
Permalink
thanks Victor. i'll take your advice. of course i shall stick to
csound, SC3 is not for me really :)

Thanks!

Peiman
Post by V***@nuim.ie
If you ask my opinion, don't spend your money on outdated HW. It
will only get more and more out of date. Stick with well supported
and maintained FOSS systems, whichever is your choice (SC3, PD and
Csound fit the bill well). My 2 cents, for what's worth (well, Eur
0.02 actually ;)
Victor
----- Original Message -----
Date: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 4:07 pm
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: [OT] wishes (was Re: Re: kyma x)
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I'm still battling with this. "To kyma or not to kyma?". The
hardware
available for sale is rather old, but the symbolic sound people assure
me that it is fully compatible with the latest software. But
then it's
another language to learn... To get it I'll end up with a €1000 hole
in my pocket which is not going to make life easier for the next few
months.
Mhhhhh the question is, is it worth it... To be honest I am a little
sceptical, all the online demos seem to sound very typical, and all
these wii/continuum demons are a bit unfortunate as they don't really
demonstrate the real ability of the system but make it look like it's
being aimed at a kind of "boys with their toys" market. But it's a
bloody expensive toy, and if that's what it is then I am
definitely
not going to spend all that money on it. For instance kyma is supposed
to have a sonogram editor (like audio sculpt) but then there are no
demonstration of that. Is it really as good as AS for editing the
sonogram? mhhh no way of knowing. Has anyone seen a demo or
tried the
sonogram editor?
They also state in their FAQ that most users use it in
conjunction
with a DAW which is fine but then if the time-line doesn't
allow
detailed mixing/editing then I'm not sure if it really is the holy
grail everyone goes on about.
I initially imagined that it's a kind of real-time and bug free CDP
system plus a time-line, which is rather promising (at least on the OS
X I cannot manage to use CDP very smoothly with 24-bit audio so I gave
up in the end). But is it!?? Or is it just another fancy gear in the
studio for chucking out cliché sounds (which is the done thing in
Hollywood sound design!) and showing off the continuum keyboard?!
In the meantime I'm beginning to find my way through the
partikkel
opcode in parallel with Roads' Microsound. Very exciting :-)
Best,
Peiman
Post by Victor Lazzarini
There was one in Trinity College Dublin, one of the earlier
models.
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Apparently it suffered from lots of crashing and people did
not seem
Post by Victor Lazzarini
to use it much. It was quickly overtaken by general-
purpose
Post by Victor Lazzarini
computers (which is one of the reasons I never gave them too
much
Post by Victor Lazzarini
thought).
Victor
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Actually is there one in UK? Once I went inside the one they
have at
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
IRCAM, I was expecting a massively different environment
from what
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I'm
used to but it was rather disappointing. Although it will be
great
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Peiman Khosravi
for
recording isolated sound sources I guess.
There is a strong rumour that there is one in my university,
but I
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
hve
never found it.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599>>
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
body
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599>
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
body
Post by Victor Lazzarini
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe csound"
Dr Victor Lazzarini, Senior Lecturer, Dept. of Music,
National University of Ireland, Maynooth
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Mark Van Peteghem
2010-03-16 20:04:33 UTC
Permalink
I typed buchla in youtube and saw some videos of these systems. It seems
like it is terrible if you want to be productive, with all these cables
you have to connect. Quickly loading an old project is out of the question.

But they sound great, that I have to say.
Post by Victor Lazzarini
If we are talking about wishes, mine is
http://www.buchla.com/series200e.html
scroll down the page to system 7.
Michael Gogins
2010-03-16 20:13:14 UTC
Permalink
They sound great, and they sound DIFFERENT. To my ears analog modular
synthesizers have a drier, snappier sound. An analog click is not a
digital click!

The other sounds as well are subtly different. It is hard to get
digital sounds to stand out the way the analog versions of the same
synthesis algorithms do. This is something I am very concerned about.

I have got very good sounds out of Csound, but it took a LOT more work
than getting good sounds out of the modular analog Nyle Steiner and
Buchla synthesizers I briefly played with in the 1970s and 1980s.

Victor has done good work recently in band-limited digital synthesis
based on phase distortion. I would be very interested to see if it
would be possible to introduce some chaos into the difference
equations in a way that would not destabilize the pitch.

Regards,
Mike

On Tue, Mar 16, 2010 at 4:04 PM, Mark Van Peteghem
Post by Mark Van Peteghem
I typed buchla in youtube and saw some videos of these systems. It seems
like it is terrible if you want to be productive, with all these cables you
have to connect. Quickly loading an old project is out of the question.
But they sound great, that I have to say.
Post by Victor Lazzarini
If we are talking about wishes, mine is
http://www.buchla.com/series200e.html
scroll down the page to system 7.
--
 Mark
 _________________________________________
 When you get lemons, you make lemonade.
 When you get hardware, you make software.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


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Victor Lazzarini
2010-03-16 20:24:55 UTC
Permalink
But that is the fun! I love patch cables. Obviously, I'm not thinking
of productivity here. Some of the Buchla youtube videos are really
interesting.

Victor
Post by Mark Van Peteghem
I typed buchla in youtube and saw some videos of these systems. It
seems like it is terrible if you want to be productive, with all
these cables you have to connect. Quickly loading an old project is
out of the question.
But they sound great, that I have to say.
Post by Victor Lazzarini
If we are talking about wishes, mine is
http://www.buchla.com/series200e.html
scroll down the page to system 7.
--
Mark
_________________________________________
When you get lemons, you make lemonade.
When you get hardware, you make software.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe csound"
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PINOT Francois
2010-03-16 20:59:12 UTC
Permalink
I've been working in an electronic music studio during 15 years (1980 -
1995). This studio was a part of an organization called 'European Center
for Musical Reserch'. We had a contemporary music festival each year in
november (International meetings for contemporary music in Metz,
France). The electronic studio had a lot of equipment: analog synths
(AKS from EMS, ARP 2600, Roland System 700), professional tape machines
(Studer 2, 4, and 16 tracks, MCI 8 tracks), digital equipements (Yamaha
dx7, tx81z, Akai S1000, Synclavier II), etc.

It's been fantastic to work there. I've seen a lot of composers
(Messiean, Xenakis, Stockausen, Kagel, Boulez, Berio, Cage, Tudor, La
Monte Young, Riley, Glass...) who were invited by the festival, and I
could work with some of them.

But during all those years, I was complaining about all those cables,
heavy machines, hard to maintain equipment... Have you ever calibrated a
16 tracks analog tape machine? Each time we had a concert outside we
filled a whole truck (how heavy were those gears!). At that time, I had
a wish: a lightweight and powerful equipment I could take everywhere.
It's realized nowadays.

My wish today it to get more free time to make music with my laptop...

François Pinot
Post by Victor Lazzarini
But that is the fun! I love patch cables. Obviously, I'm not thinking
of productivity here. Some of the Buchla youtube videos are really
interesting.
Victor
Post by Mark Van Peteghem
I typed buchla in youtube and saw some videos of these systems. It
seems like it is terrible if you want to be productive, with all
these cables you have to connect. Quickly loading an old project is
out of the question.
But they sound great, that I have to say.
Post by Victor Lazzarini
If we are talking about wishes, mine is
http://www.buchla.com/series200e.html
scroll down the page to system 7.
--
Mark
_________________________________________
When you get lemons, you make lemonade.
When you get hardware, you make software.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe csound"
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Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe csound"
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Victor Lazzarini
2010-03-16 21:17:32 UTC
Permalink
yes, I've worked with a big 16tracker once upon a time. Not something
I'd like to come back to. But I would love having a large modular
synth in our studio.

Victor
Post by PINOT Francois
I've been working in an electronic music studio during 15 years
(1980 - 1995). This studio was a part of an organization called
'European Center for Musical Reserch'. We had a contemporary music
festival each year in november (International meetings for
contemporary music in Metz, France). The electronic studio had a lot
of equipment: analog synths (AKS from EMS, ARP 2600, Roland System
700), professional tape machines (Studer 2, 4, and 16 tracks, MCI 8
tracks), digital equipements (Yamaha dx7, tx81z, Akai S1000,
Synclavier II), etc.
It's been fantastic to work there. I've seen a lot of composers
(Messiean, Xenakis, Stockausen, Kagel, Boulez, Berio, Cage, Tudor,
La Monte Young, Riley, Glass...) who were invited by the festival,
and I could work with some of them.
But during all those years, I was complaining about all those
cables, heavy machines, hard to maintain equipment... Have you ever
calibrated a 16 tracks analog tape machine? Each time we had a
concert outside we filled a whole truck (how heavy were those
gears!). At that time, I had a wish: a lightweight and powerful
equipment I could take everywhere. It's realized nowadays.
My wish today it to get more free time to make music with my laptop...
François Pinot
Post by Victor Lazzarini
But that is the fun! I love patch cables. Obviously, I'm not
thinking of productivity here. Some of the Buchla youtube videos
are really interesting.
Victor
Post by Mark Van Peteghem
I typed buchla in youtube and saw some videos of these systems. It
seems like it is terrible if you want to be productive, with all
these cables you have to connect. Quickly loading an old project
is out of the question.
But they sound great, that I have to say.
Post by Victor Lazzarini
If we are talking about wishes, mine is
http://www.buchla.com/series200e.html
scroll down the page to system 7.
--
Mark
_________________________________________
When you get lemons, you make lemonade.
When you get hardware, you make software.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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"unsubscribe csound"
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Chuckk Hubbard
2010-03-22 08:38:12 UTC
Permalink
A brain-computer interface. I read about some work a while ago, but not
available to musicians.
-Chuckk
Post by Victor Lazzarini
If we are talking about wishes, mine is
http://www.buchla.com/series200e.html
scroll down the page to system 7.
Victor
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Order/WebHome
I guess I'll just buy the T-shirt.
--
Mark
_________________________________________
When you get lemons, you make lemonade.
When you get hardware, you make software.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
--
http://www.badmuthahubbard.com

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Rory Walsh
2010-03-22 12:41:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chuckk Hubbard
A brain-computer interface. I read about some work a while ago, but not
available to musicians.
I know at least one musician who has one! She was using the info
retrieved to control parameters of her compositions. As far as I know
she does not use it anymore, in fact I think she's interested in
selling it.

Rory.


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Peiman Khosravi
2010-03-22 12:42:30 UTC
Permalink
Do you know how it works?

P
Post by Rory Walsh
Post by Chuckk Hubbard
A brain-computer interface. I read about some work a while ago, but not
available to musicians.
I know at least one musician who has one! She was using the info
retrieved to control parameters of her compositions. As far as I know
she does not use it anymore, in fact I think she's interested in
selling it.
Rory.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe csound"
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Peiman Khosravi
2010-03-22 12:43:07 UTC
Permalink
I want to be able to imagine spectra and for it to be realised!!
Post by Rory Walsh
Post by Chuckk Hubbard
A brain-computer interface. I read about some work a while ago, but not
available to musicians.
I know at least one musician who has one! She was using the info
retrieved to control parameters of her compositions. As far as I know
she does not use it anymore, in fact I think she's interested in
selling it.
Rory.
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Rory Walsh
2010-03-22 13:19:26 UTC
Permalink
No idea how it works. And also no idea of what kind of information it
sends to the computer...
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I want to be able to imagine spectra and for it to be realised!!
Post by Rory Walsh
Post by Chuckk Hubbard
A brain-computer interface. I read about some work a while ago, but not
available to musicians.
I know at least one musician who has one! She was using the info
retrieved to control parameters of her compositions. As far as I know
she does not use it anymore, in fact I think she's interested in
selling it.
Rory.
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Chuckk Hubbard
2010-03-23 08:40:55 UTC
Permalink
I'm sure it doesn't "know" what you're thinking, it's just able to
differentiate between State A and State B. Still, I think with clever
programming it could turn into something useful.
My idea would be to control the score with it; not individual notes, but
perhaps certain kinds of modulations. Still, that might be too detailed.

Someone at IEM in Graz told me the technical school there had a department
working with these things once, and that collaboration with the art school
was not out of the question. Other than that, the only research I've heard
of has been with monkeys and quadraplegic patients, and consisted of pretty
simple information. The paralyzed guy they wrote about could play Pong
passably with it. Must have been pretty amazing for him, though. He said it
was hard work.

-Chuckk
Post by Rory Walsh
No idea how it works. And also no idea of what kind of information it
sends to the computer...
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I want to be able to imagine spectra and for it to be realised!!
Post by Rory Walsh
Post by Chuckk Hubbard
A brain-computer interface. I read about some work a while ago, but not
available to musicians.
I know at least one musician who has one! She was using the info
retrieved to control parameters of her compositions. As far as I know
she does not use it anymore, in fact I think she's interested in
selling it.
Rory.
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Post by Peiman Khosravi
Post by Rory Walsh
csound"
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--
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Rory Walsh
2010-03-23 10:39:17 UTC
Permalink
They are using brain interfaces in the University of Plymouth which is
where I heard about these interfaces in the first place.
http://www.plymouth.ac.uk/pages/view.asp?page=27716

Rory.
Post by Chuckk Hubbard
I'm sure it doesn't "know" what you're thinking, it's just able to
differentiate between State A and State B. Still, I think with clever
programming it could turn into something useful.
My idea would be to control the score with it; not individual notes, but
perhaps certain kinds of modulations. Still, that might be too detailed.
Someone at IEM in Graz told me the technical school there had a department
working with these things once, and that collaboration with the art school
was not out of the question. Other than that, the only research I've heard
of has been with monkeys and quadraplegic patients, and consisted of pretty
simple information. The paralyzed guy they wrote about could play Pong
passably with it. Must have been pretty amazing for him, though. He said it
was hard work.
-Chuckk
Post by Rory Walsh
No idea how it works. And also no idea of what kind of information it
sends to the computer...
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I want to be able to imagine spectra and for it to be realised!!
Post by Rory Walsh
Post by Chuckk Hubbard
A brain-computer interface. I read about some work a while ago, but not
available to musicians.
I know at least one musician who has one! She was using the info
retrieved to control parameters of her compositions. As far as I know
she does not use it anymore, in fact I think she's interested in
selling it.
Rory.
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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"unsubscribe
csound"
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b***@eircom.net
2010-03-23 11:44:46 UTC
Permalink
In his book, "Composing with Computers", Eduardo Reck Miranda (currently at University of Plymouth)has a piece on the IBVA (Interactive Brain Visual Analyser)software application, and on the attached CD rom with the book, Dr Miranda has included a copy of the IBVA software.

Barry


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luis jure
2010-03-23 12:59:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chuckk Hubbard
I'm sure it doesn't "know" what you're thinking, it's just able to
differentiate between State A and State B. Still, I think with clever
programming it could turn into something useful.
in january i attended a presentation by Brad Garton and Dave Soldier
at the guggenheim museum in NYC, where they presented the system
they've been developing. they use one of those el cheapo head bands to
generate the signals sent to the computer. the eeg is not very precise
and rather noisy, but the device is inexpensive and affordable, compared
to professional EEG equipment. (this was during an event called "The
Universe Resounds: Kandinsky, Synesthesia, and Art", the related page
is no longer available at the museum's site).

i found these on youtube from another performance:



there's more info here, with a link to an hour long video:
http://whyy.org/cms/news/health-science/2009/03/20/brain-beats-a-performance-and-science-discussion/3853
http://video.whyy.org/video/1129984455.


tchüß,

lj


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Peiman Khosravi
2010-03-23 17:24:45 UTC
Permalink
Thanks. And one here, although not music-related.



Post by luis jure
Post by Chuckk Hubbard
I'm sure it doesn't "know" what you're thinking, it's just able to
differentiate between State A and State B. Still, I think with clever
programming it could turn into something useful.
in january i attended a presentation by Brad Garton and Dave Soldier
at the guggenheim museum in NYC, where they presented the system
they've been developing. they use one of those el cheapo head bands to
generate the signals sent to the computer. the eeg is not very precise
and rather noisy, but the device is inexpensive and affordable, compared
to professional EEG equipment. (this was during an event called "The
Universe Resounds: Kandinsky, Synesthesia, and Art", the related page
is no longer available at the museum's site).
http://youtu.be/dHbFaOeJY-Y
http://youtu.be/f3aiGSoAj1I
http://whyy.org/cms/news/health-science/2009/03/20/brain-beats-a-performance-and-science-discussion/3853
http://video.whyy.org/video/1129984455.
tchüß,
lj
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Rory Walsh
2010-03-23 18:30:17 UTC
Permalink
Someone should bring him a typewriter!
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Thanks. And one here, although not music-related.
http://youtu.be/jOkpn0BN2HE
Post by luis jure
Post by Chuckk Hubbard
I'm sure it doesn't "know" what you're thinking, it's just able to
differentiate between State A and State B. Still, I think with clever
programming it could turn into something useful.
in january i attended a presentation by Brad Garton and Dave Soldier
at the guggenheim museum in NYC, where they presented the system
they've been developing. they use one of those el cheapo head bands to
generate the signals sent to the computer. the eeg is not very precise
and rather noisy, but the device is inexpensive and affordable, compared
to professional EEG equipment. (this was during an event called "The
Universe Resounds: Kandinsky, Synesthesia, and Art", the related page
is no longer available at the museum's site).
http://youtu.be/dHbFaOeJY-Y
http://youtu.be/f3aiGSoAj1I
http://whyy.org/cms/news/health-science/2009/03/20/brain-beats-a-performance-and-science-discussion/3853
http://video.whyy.org/video/1129984455.
tchüß,
lj
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kelly hirai
2010-03-23 15:26:39 UTC
Permalink
the national geographic had an article about the use of neuron impulses
being use to control prosthetic linbs, not from the brain but from the
end of the amputated limb.


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Victor Lazzarini
2010-03-22 13:58:25 UTC
Permalink
Unfortunately, it appears to be less tractable than that...
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I want to be able to imagine spectra and for it to be realised!!
Post by Rory Walsh
Post by Chuckk Hubbard
A brain-computer interface. I read about some work a while ago, but not
available to musicians.
I know at least one musician who has one! She was using the info
retrieved to control parameters of her compositions. As far as I know
she does not use it anymore, in fact I think she's interested in
selling it.
Rory.
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Peiman Khosravi
2010-03-22 18:09:20 UTC
Permalink
Indeed it is unfortunate. Wouldn't it be amazing to be able to record
spectromorphological streams of consciousness and then edit and mix
them...
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Unfortunately, it appears to be less tractable than that...
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I want to be able to imagine spectra and for it to be realised!!
Post by Rory Walsh
Post by Chuckk Hubbard
A brain-computer interface. I read about some work a while ago, but not
available to musicians.
I know at least one musician who has one! She was using the info
retrieved to control parameters of her compositions. As far as I know
she does not use it anymore, in fact I think she's interested in
selling it.
Rory.
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Rory Walsh
2010-03-22 18:36:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Indeed it is unfortunate. Wouldn't it be amazing to be able to record
spectromorphological streams of consciousness and then edit and mix them...
Maybe something for our next google summer of code application!


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Peiman Khosravi
2010-03-22 18:57:05 UTC
Permalink
I'm happy to volunteer myself as a guinea pig for any experiments ;-)

P
Post by Rory Walsh
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Indeed it is unfortunate. Wouldn't it be amazing to be able to record
spectromorphological streams of consciousness and then edit and mix them...
Maybe something for our next google summer of code application!
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Rory Walsh
2010-03-16 10:02:50 UTC
Permalink
I may go for the cup. Therefore when people visit my house they'll
think I have a full kyma system in my studio. Of course I'll never let
them into my studio, but when they look at my crap-pile of a car in
the driveway they'll assume I don't drive an old banged up car because
my music is so bad it doesn't make me any money but because I paid for
kyma instead!
Post by Mark Van Peteghem
Post by Peiman Khosravi
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Order/WebHome
I guess I'll just buy the T-shirt.
--
 Mark
 _________________________________________
 When you get lemons, you make lemonade.
 When you get hardware, you make software.
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Peiman Khosravi
2010-03-16 11:18:09 UTC
Permalink


I'm gonna get my self a coffee-maker soon but the espresso machine
will have to wait until I make it to Hollywood!

P
Post by Rory Walsh
I may go for the cup. Therefore when people visit my house they'll
think I have a full kyma system in my studio. Of course I'll never let
them into my studio, but when they look at my crap-pile of a car in
the driveway they'll assume I don't drive an old banged up car because
my music is so bad it doesn't make me any money but because I paid for
kyma instead!
Post by Mark Van Peteghem
Post by Peiman Khosravi
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Order/WebHome
I guess I'll just buy the T-shirt.
--
Mark
_________________________________________
When you get lemons, you make lemonade.
When you get hardware, you make software.
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Michael Gogins
2010-03-13 17:54:13 UTC
Permalink
Actually, dropping objects on a timeline is a form of programming --
graphical programming. The user is creating a sequence of instructions
for a computer to carry out automatically.

On Sat, Mar 13, 2010 at 11:29 AM, Anthony Palomba
Post by Anthony Palomba
Well I think the thing that makes Kyma easier to use is that it is
an integrated environment that comes out of the box with a timeline
and many objects that you can drag and drop into your project.
There is no programming work required by the user.
The closest thing I have been able to come to that is a Csound/Max/Ableton
environment. Although I love the control that this combination gives me, it
takes
a lot of work to manage it. I think I spend more time programming than
I do making music.
-ap
Post by Michael Gogins
Thanks for your informed feedback.
I would be very interested to hear what you think could be changed in
Csound to make it easier for people like you to use.
Regards,
Mike
Post by m***@city-net.com
Kyma was my primary compositional tool from 1994-2004. It is fabulous and
IMO there's nothing better. However, it is expensive. I switched to Csound
after retiring from my day job. There is no way now I can afford to keep
up with Kyma upgrades.
So far, I haven't encountered anything that I can't do in Csound that I
was doing with Kyma, though Kyma is faster and more intuitive to work
with. Since I am completely self-taught, Csound totally baffled me when I
first looked at it around 1996. Kyma, and Carla Scaletti's excellent
manual and tutorials, taught me enough about how digital sound works that
the switch to Csound has been an enjoyable one. That said, I don't
hesitate to recommend Kyma to anyone who asks. However, whether it's the
holy grail...only Monty Python knows for sure.
--David
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Hello,
I remember this came up a few years ago. Has anyone here ever used
kyma? Is it really the holy grail of sound design? What can you do
with it that can't be done with csound?
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Company/WebHome
Thanks
Peiman
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csound"
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Irreducible Productions
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Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
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Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


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Peiman Khosravi
2010-03-13 17:10:08 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for all the information. I should say that I'm not particularly
bothered with all the nice controllers like the continuum and so on.
For the simple reason that it doesn't really fit into my workflow. I
like editing lines too much :-) I'm sure the continuum could somehow
be used with csound though, maybe via max?

I also like the max/csound combination. MSP is to my ears not always
good-sounding, particularly in the frequency domain DSP. Again I find
ableton too geared towards the popular culture, beat-based market to
suit me as a working environment, and I am not convinced that it
sounds that great (for instance the sample conversion engine is rather
poor). Now those issues wouldn't be so important when it comes to live
performance but for studio sound design I would prefer better quality
over speed (which csound certainly offers).


Back to Michael's question. The only reason why I consider kyma is
because of the time-line and the GUI capabilities being apparently so
well integrated with the DSP engine. Working with max/csound involves
a lot of coding and hacking, most of it involving GUI design, which
doesn't directly related to composing. It's not exactly an intuitive
way of working, for instance if you want to quickly try out an idea.

For me blue/csound is the closest it gets to the kyma environment. The
only thing is the speed (also the drag&drop features of kyma make
things very intuitive) I guess, which does effect the work-flow.

Some ideas that could make things better in csound:

1- developing a wide range of DSP instruments that focus specifically
on high quality processing and synthesis for sound design.
2- having a more intuitive way of categorising these instruments in
blue, auditioning them and drag and drop... Perhaps even a higher
level flow-chart that allows the user to combine the different
instruments without having to code. Some sort of sound platter from
which these instruments can be drag and dropped onto a time-line,
where k-rate control parameters automatically show-up as automations.
mhh sounds like kyma :-) So an instrument can take either a sound-file
from disk, from RAM, input from adc or from another instrument without
the need to code (so all of these is taken care of by the interface).
This way the user can concentrate on coding where it matters (the core
DSP algorithm).

Now I believe blue is very very close to achieving all of these.

Also I would love it if all the opcodes that read from GEN01 could not
be limited to power of two sizes. Including the Grain opcodes :-)


Best,

P
Post by Anthony Palomba
Well I think the thing that makes Kyma easier to use is that it is
an integrated environment that comes out of the box with a timeline
and many objects that you can drag and drop into your project.
There is no programming work required by the user.
The closest thing I have been able to come to that is a Csound/Max/
Ableton
environment. Although I love the control that this combination gives
me, it takes
a lot of work to manage it. I think I spend more time programming than
I do making music.
-ap
Thanks for your informed feedback.
I would be very interested to hear what you think could be changed in
Csound to make it easier for people like you to use.
Regards,
Mike
Post by m***@city-net.com
Kyma was my primary compositional tool from 1994-2004. It is
fabulous and
Post by m***@city-net.com
IMO there's nothing better. However, it is expensive. I switched
to Csound
Post by m***@city-net.com
after retiring from my day job. There is no way now I can afford
to keep
Post by m***@city-net.com
up with Kyma upgrades.
So far, I haven't encountered anything that I can't do in Csound
that I
Post by m***@city-net.com
was doing with Kyma, though Kyma is faster and more intuitive to
work
Post by m***@city-net.com
with. Since I am completely self-taught, Csound totally baffled me
when I
Post by m***@city-net.com
first looked at it around 1996. Kyma, and Carla Scaletti's excellent
manual and tutorials, taught me enough about how digital sound
works that
Post by m***@city-net.com
the switch to Csound has been an enjoyable one. That said, I don't
hesitate to recommend Kyma to anyone who asks. However, whether
it's the
Post by m***@city-net.com
holy grail...only Monty Python knows for sure.
--David
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Hello,
I remember this came up a few years ago. Has anyone here ever used
kyma? Is it really the holy grail of sound design? What can you do
with it that can't be done with csound?
http://www.symbolicsound.com/cgi-bin/bin/view/Company/WebHome
Thanks
Peiman
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Post by m***@city-net.com
Post by Peiman Khosravi
csound"
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Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
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m***@city-net.com
2010-03-17 12:54:45 UTC
Permalink
Mike--

For me, the initial opaqueness of Csound was largely the result of my own
ignorance about digital sound and how to work with it on a computer. None
of my old reel-to-reel cut 'n splice experience seemed relevant. Kyma got
me past that. So, to make Csound easier for "people like me" (I am a
mammal) would entail, at least, some introductory matter on the nature of
digital sound and how some of the basic opcodes function.

The manual is an excellent reference tool but is not a particularly good
teaching tool. The tutorials are good as far as they go. The introductory
chapters of the Csound Book are also helpful for getting started. But what
seems lacking to me for beginners is something that ties it all together.
If you can get hold of a copy, take a look at the tutorials in the Kyma
manual.

The terminology in the manual took me a long time to grasp. It is elegant
and consistent once you get it, but until then it's like looking something
up in a technical dictionary: half the terms in the definition have to, in
turn, be looked up. Perhaps a glossary would be helpful.

The other thing about the manual that makes it difficult is the absence of
anything that ties related opcodes together. The quick reference does
group them, but without explanation. An easy example of this are the pvs
opcodes. These are great and I have enjoyed using them, but many of them
seem related and some really work best when used together in some way. An
introduction that explains what they are and, in less technical terms,
what they do, and finally, how they relate to one one another would make
these tools far more accessible.

The last thing I think could be helpful both to the novice and more
experienced Csound user is an index to the manual. By this I don't mean a
simple alphabetical listing of the opcodes as already exists. The problem
here is that if you don't already know what it is, you can't look it up.
Again, the quick reference is helpful, but begs the question: you have to
already know what group of opcodes to look at in order to find what you
need. A conceptual index that avoids the technical terminology what be a
real boon.

All that said, I fully realize that Csound is driven by dedicated
developers such as yourself and that the kind of enhancements I'm
suggesting would be a large and time consuming project. I appreciate
Csound as is and have enjoyed the challenge of learning it, but since you
asked...

Best--

--David
Post by Michael Gogins
Thanks for your informed feedback.
I would be very interested to hear what you think could be changed in
Csound to make it easier for people like you to use.
Regards,
Mike
Post by m***@city-net.com
Kyma was my primary compositional tool from 1994-2004. It is fabulous and
IMO there's nothing better. However, it is expensive. I switched to Csound
after retiring from my day job. There is no way now I can afford to keep
up with Kyma upgrades.
So far, I haven't encountered anything that I can't do in Csound that I
was doing with Kyma, though Kyma is faster and more intuitive to work
with. Since I am completely self-taught, Csound totally baffled me when I
first looked at it around 1996. Kyma, and Carla Scaletti's excellent
manual and tutorials, taught me enough about how digital sound works that
the switch to Csound has been an enjoyable one. That said, I don't
hesitate to recommend Kyma to anyone who asks. However, whether it's the
holy grail...only Monty Python knows for sure.
--David
Peiman Khosravi
2010-03-17 13:11:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@city-net.com
Mike--
For me, the initial opaqueness of Csound was largely the result of my own
ignorance about digital sound and how to work with it on a computer. None
of my old reel-to-reel cut 'n splice experience seemed relevant. Kyma got
me past that. So, to make Csound easier for "people like me" (I am a
mammal) would entail, at least, some introductory matter on the nature of
digital sound and how some of the basic opcodes function.
The manual is an excellent reference tool but is not a particularly good
teaching tool. The tutorials are good as far as they go. The
introductory
chapters of the Csound Book are also helpful for getting started. But what
seems lacking to me for beginners is something that ties it all together.
If you can get hold of a copy, take a look at the tutorials in the Kyma
manual.
The terminology in the manual took me a long time to grasp. It is elegant
and consistent once you get it, but until then it's like looking something
up in a technical dictionary: half the terms in the definition have to, in
turn, be looked up. Perhaps a glossary would be helpful.
Agreed.
Anyone here seen David Cottle's Supercollider Tutorial? It's brilliant.

The Csound book was how I managed to get into Csound, and this list of
course. Unfortunately the book has not been revised for csound 5 and
is therefore lacking some important recent opcodes. Also I would like
to see a simpler more linearly structured book that take the reader
through all the different synthesis techniques. A book that is as much
teaching material for synthesis/processing as it is for the Csound
language.
Post by m***@city-net.com
The other thing about the manual that makes it difficult is the absence of
anything that ties related opcodes together. The quick reference does
Absolutely.
Post by m***@city-net.com
group them, but without explanation. An easy example of this are the pvs
opcodes. These are great and I have enjoyed using them, but many of them
seem related and some really work best when used together in some way. An
introduction that explains what they are and, in less technical terms,
what they do, and finally, how they relate to one one another would make
these tools far more accessible.
The last thing I think could be helpful both to the novice and more
experienced Csound user is an index to the manual. By this I don't mean a
simple alphabetical listing of the opcodes as already exists. The problem
here is that if you don't already know what it is, you can't look it up.
Again, the quick reference is helpful, but begs the question: you have to
already know what group of opcodes to look at in order to find what you
need. A conceptual index that avoids the technical terminology what be a
real boon.
All that said, I fully realize that Csound is driven by dedicated
developers such as yourself and that the kind of enhancements I'm
suggesting would be a large and time consuming project. I appreciate
Csound as is and have enjoyed the challenge of learning it, but since you
asked...
Best--
--David
Post by Michael Gogins
Thanks for your informed feedback.
I would be very interested to hear what you think could be changed in
Csound to make it easier for people like you to use.
Regards,
Mike
Post by m***@city-net.com
Kyma was my primary compositional tool from 1994-2004. It is
fabulous
and
IMO there's nothing better. However, it is expensive. I switched to Csound
after retiring from my day job. There is no way now I can afford to keep
up with Kyma upgrades.
So far, I haven't encountered anything that I can't do in Csound that I
was doing with Kyma, though Kyma is faster and more intuitive to work
with. Since I am completely self-taught, Csound totally baffled me
when
I
first looked at it around 1996. Kyma, and Carla Scaletti's excellent
manual and tutorials, taught me enough about how digital sound works that
the switch to Csound has been an enjoyable one. That said, I don't
hesitate to recommend Kyma to anyone who asks. However, whether it's the
holy grail...only Monty Python knows for sure.
--David
--
http://www.city-net.com/~moko/
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
Steven Yi
2010-03-17 18:02:51 UTC
Permalink
I went to find the David Cottle Tutorial but the only link I found was
dead (http://fileserver.music.utah.edu/cottle/wppy/CMwSC.pdf). Anyone
know where a copy of this can be found?

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Peiman Khosravi
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Post by m***@city-net.com
Mike--
For me, the initial opaqueness of Csound was largely the result of my own
ignorance about digital sound and how to work with it on a computer. None
of my old reel-to-reel cut 'n splice experience seemed relevant. Kyma got
me past that. So, to make Csound easier for "people like me" (I am a
mammal) would entail, at least, some introductory matter on the nature of
digital sound and how some of the basic opcodes function.
The manual is an excellent reference tool but is not a particularly good
teaching tool. The tutorials are good as far as they go. The introductory
chapters of the Csound Book are also helpful for getting started. But what
seems lacking to me for beginners is something that ties it all together.
If you can get hold of a copy, take a look at the tutorials in the Kyma
manual.
The terminology in the manual took me a long time to grasp. It is elegant
and consistent once you get it, but until then it's like looking something
up in a technical dictionary: half the terms in the definition have to, in
turn, be looked up. Perhaps a glossary would be helpful.
Agreed.
Anyone here seen David Cottle's Supercollider Tutorial? It's brilliant.
The Csound book was how I managed to get into Csound, and this list of
course. Unfortunately the book has not been revised for csound 5 and is
therefore lacking some important recent opcodes. Also I would like to see a
simpler more linearly structured book that take the reader through all the
different synthesis techniques. A book that is as much teaching material for
synthesis/processing as it is for the Csound language.
Post by m***@city-net.com
The other thing about the manual that makes it difficult is the absence of
anything that ties related opcodes together. The quick reference does
Absolutely.
Post by m***@city-net.com
group them, but without explanation. An easy example of this are the pvs
opcodes. These are great and I have enjoyed using them, but many of them
seem related and some really work best when used together in some way. An
introduction that explains what they are and, in less technical terms,
what they do, and finally, how they relate to one one another would make
these tools far more accessible.
The last thing I think could be helpful both to the novice and more
experienced Csound user is an index to the manual. By this I don't mean a
simple alphabetical listing of the opcodes as already exists. The problem
here is that if you don't already know what it is, you can't look it up.
Again, the quick reference is helpful, but begs the question: you have to
already know what group of opcodes to look at in order to find what you
need. A conceptual index that avoids the technical terminology what be a
real boon.
All that said, I fully realize that Csound is driven by dedicated
developers such as yourself and that the kind of enhancements I'm
suggesting would be a large and time consuming project. I appreciate
Csound as is and have enjoyed the challenge of learning it, but since you
asked...
Best--
--David
Post by Michael Gogins
Thanks for your informed feedback.
I would be very interested to hear what you think could be changed in
Csound to make it easier for people like you to use.
Regards,
Mike
Post by m***@city-net.com
Kyma was my primary compositional tool from 1994-2004. It is fabulous and
IMO there's nothing better. However, it is expensive. I switched to Csound
after retiring from my day job. There is no way now I can afford to keep
up with Kyma upgrades.
So far, I haven't encountered anything that I can't do in Csound that I
was doing with Kyma, though Kyma is faster and more intuitive to work
with. Since I am completely self-taught, Csound totally baffled me when I
first looked at it around 1996. Kyma, and Carla Scaletti's excellent
manual and tutorials, taught me enough about how digital sound works that
the switch to Csound has been an enjoyable one. That said, I don't
hesitate to recommend Kyma to anyone who asks. However, whether it's the
holy grail...only Monty Python knows for sure.
--David
--
http://www.city-net.com/~moko/
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
2010-03-17 18:16:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven Yi
I went to find the David Cottle Tutorial but the only link I found was
dead (http://fileserver.music.utah.edu/cottle/wppy/CMwSC.pdf). Anyone
know where a copy of this can be found?
Is http://wiki.soslug.org/wiki/sc02_basics the same?





Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
Peiman Khosravi
2010-03-17 18:18:26 UTC
Permalink
Not at all. I think the only way get it is by emailing David Cottle.

Best,

Peiman
Post by j***@cs.bath.ac.uk
Post by Steven Yi
I went to find the David Cottle Tutorial but the only link I found was
dead (http://fileserver.music.utah.edu/cottle/wppy/CMwSC.pdf).
Anyone
know where a copy of this can be found?
Is http://wiki.soslug.org/wiki/sc02_basics the same?
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
Richard Power
2010-03-17 18:41:28 UTC
Permalink
http://ecmc.rochester.edu/adv/CottleSC3.pdf
Post by Steven Yi
I went to find the David Cottle Tutorial but the only link I found was
dead (http://fileserver.music.utah.edu/cottle/wppy/CMwSC.pdf). Anyone
know where a copy of this can be found?
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Peiman Khosravi
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Post by m***@city-net.com
Mike--
For me, the initial opaqueness of Csound was largely the result of my own
ignorance about digital sound and how to work with it on a computer. None
of my old reel-to-reel cut 'n splice experience seemed relevant. Kyma got
me past that. So, to make Csound easier for "people like me" (I am a
mammal) would entail, at least, some introductory matter on the nature of
digital sound and how some of the basic opcodes function.
The manual is an excellent reference tool but is not a particularly good
teaching tool. The tutorials are good as far as they go. The introductory
chapters of the Csound Book are also helpful for getting started. But what
seems lacking to me for beginners is something that ties it all together.
If you can get hold of a copy, take a look at the tutorials in the Kyma
manual.
The terminology in the manual took me a long time to grasp. It is elegant
and consistent once you get it, but until then it's like looking something
up in a technical dictionary: half the terms in the definition have to, in
turn, be looked up. Perhaps a glossary would be helpful.
Agreed.
Anyone here seen David Cottle's Supercollider Tutorial? It's brilliant.
The Csound book was how I managed to get into Csound, and this list of
course. Unfortunately the book has not been revised for csound 5 and is
therefore lacking some important recent opcodes. Also I would like to see a
simpler more linearly structured book that take the reader through all the
different synthesis techniques. A book that is as much teaching material for
synthesis/processing as it is for the Csound language.
Post by m***@city-net.com
The other thing about the manual that makes it difficult is the absence of
anything that ties related opcodes together. The quick reference does
Absolutely.
Post by m***@city-net.com
group them, but without explanation. An easy example of this are the pvs
opcodes. These are great and I have enjoyed using them, but many of them
seem related and some really work best when used together in some way. An
introduction that explains what they are and, in less technical terms,
what they do, and finally, how they relate to one one another would make
these tools far more accessible.
The last thing I think could be helpful both to the novice and more
experienced Csound user is an index to the manual. By this I don't mean a
simple alphabetical listing of the opcodes as already exists. The problem
here is that if you don't already know what it is, you can't look it up.
Again, the quick reference is helpful, but begs the question: you have to
already know what group of opcodes to look at in order to find what you
need. A conceptual index that avoids the technical terminology what be a
real boon.
All that said, I fully realize that Csound is driven by dedicated
developers such as yourself and that the kind of enhancements I'm
suggesting would be a large and time consuming project. I appreciate
Csound as is and have enjoyed the challenge of learning it, but since you
asked...
Best--
--David
Post by Michael Gogins
Thanks for your informed feedback.
I would be very interested to hear what you think could be changed in
Csound to make it easier for people like you to use.
Regards,
Mike
Post by m***@city-net.com
Kyma was my primary compositional tool from 1994-2004. It is fabulous and
IMO there's nothing better. However, it is expensive. I switched to Csound
after retiring from my day job. There is no way now I can afford to keep
up with Kyma upgrades.
So far, I haven't encountered anything that I can't do in Csound that I
was doing with Kyma, though Kyma is faster and more intuitive to work
with. Since I am completely self-taught, Csound totally baffled me when I
first looked at it around 1996. Kyma, and Carla Scaletti's excellent
manual and tutorials, taught me enough about how digital sound works that
the switch to Csound has been an enjoyable one. That said, I don't
hesitate to recommend Kyma to anyone who asks. However, whether it's the
holy grail...only Monty Python knows for sure.
--David
--
http://www.city-net.com/~moko/
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
Steven Yi
2010-03-17 18:48:25 UTC
Permalink
Thanks all! I have a copy here now to check out.
Post by Richard Power
http://ecmc.rochester.edu/adv/CottleSC3.pdf
Post by Steven Yi
I went to find the David Cottle Tutorial but the only link I found was
dead (http://fileserver.music.utah.edu/cottle/wppy/CMwSC.pdf).  Anyone
know where a copy of this can be found?
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 9:11 AM, Peiman Khosravi
Post by Peiman Khosravi
Post by m***@city-net.com
Mike--
For me, the initial opaqueness of Csound was largely the result of my own
ignorance about digital sound and how to work with it on a computer. None
of my old reel-to-reel cut 'n splice experience seemed relevant. Kyma got
me past that. So, to make Csound easier for "people like me" (I am a
mammal) would entail, at least, some introductory matter on the nature of
digital sound and how some of the basic opcodes function.
The manual is an excellent reference tool but is not a particularly good
teaching tool. The tutorials are good as far as they go. The introductory
chapters of the Csound Book are also helpful for getting started. But what
seems lacking to me for beginners is something that ties it all together.
If you can get hold of a copy, take a look at the tutorials in the Kyma
manual.
The terminology in the manual took me a long time to grasp. It is elegant
and consistent once you get it, but until then it's like looking something
up in a technical dictionary: half the terms in the definition have to, in
turn, be looked up. Perhaps a glossary would be helpful.
Agreed.
Anyone here seen David Cottle's Supercollider Tutorial? It's brilliant.
The Csound book was how I managed to get into Csound, and this list of
course. Unfortunately the book has not been revised for csound 5 and is
therefore lacking some important recent opcodes. Also I would like to see a
simpler more linearly structured book that take the reader through all the
different synthesis techniques. A book that is as much teaching material for
synthesis/processing as it is for the Csound language.
Post by m***@city-net.com
The other thing about the manual that makes it difficult is the absence of
anything that ties related opcodes together. The quick reference does
Absolutely.
Post by m***@city-net.com
group them, but without explanation. An easy example of this are the pvs
opcodes. These are great and I have enjoyed using them, but many of them
seem related and some really work best when used together in some way. An
introduction that explains what they are and, in less technical terms,
what they do, and finally, how they relate to one one another would make
these tools far more accessible.
The last thing I think could be helpful both to the novice and more
experienced Csound user is an index to the manual. By this I don't mean a
simple alphabetical listing of the opcodes as already exists. The problem
here is that if you don't already know what it is, you can't look it up.
Again, the quick reference is helpful, but begs the question: you have to
already know what group of opcodes to look at in order to find what you
need. A conceptual index that avoids the technical terminology what be a
real boon.
All that said, I fully realize that Csound is driven by dedicated
developers such as yourself and that the kind of enhancements I'm
suggesting would be a large and time consuming project. I appreciate
Csound as is and have enjoyed the challenge of learning it, but since you
asked...
Best--
--David
Post by Michael Gogins
Thanks for your informed feedback.
I would be very interested to hear what you think could be changed in
Csound to make it easier for people like you to use.
Regards,
Mike
Post by m***@city-net.com
Kyma was my primary compositional tool from 1994-2004. It is fabulous and
IMO there's nothing better. However, it is expensive. I switched to Csound
after retiring from my day job. There is no way now I can afford to keep
up with Kyma upgrades.
So far, I haven't encountered anything that I can't do in Csound that I
was doing with Kyma, though Kyma is faster and more intuitive to work
with. Since I am completely self-taught, Csound totally baffled me when I
first looked at it around 1996. Kyma, and Carla Scaletti's excellent
manual and tutorials, taught me enough about how digital sound works that
the switch to Csound has been an enjoyable one. That said, I don't
hesitate to recommend Kyma to anyone who asks. However, whether it's the
holy grail...only Monty Python knows for sure.
--David
--
http://www.city-net.com/~moko/
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
          https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
To unsubscribe, send email ***@lists.bath.ac.uk with body "unsubscribe csound"
joachim heintz
2010-03-17 13:16:48 UTC
Permalink
Hi David -

I totally agree to your suggestions. Andrés, can we include them in
the manual if David does this work?

I think what would be very useful, too, is the extension of the "See
also" section of a manual page. This is very good in Max: you start
with any help window, and because of the links you can discover the
whole application just by the links. This could be the same in Csound.
If anyone can have a look at this, and send me a list, I will try to
include it in the manual.

joachim
Post by m***@city-net.com
Mike--
For me, the initial opaqueness of Csound was largely the result of my own
ignorance about digital sound and how to work with it on a computer. None
of my old reel-to-reel cut 'n splice experience seemed relevant. Kyma got
me past that. So, to make Csound easier for "people like me" (I am a
mammal) would entail, at least, some introductory matter on the nature of
digital sound and how some of the basic opcodes function.
The manual is an excellent reference tool but is not a particularly good
teaching tool. The tutorials are good as far as they go. The
introductory
chapters of the Csound Book are also helpful for getting started. But what
seems lacking to me for beginners is something that ties it all together.
If you can get hold of a copy, take a look at the tutorials in the Kyma
manual.
The terminology in the manual took me a long time to grasp. It is elegant
and consistent once you get it, but until then it's like looking something
up in a technical dictionary: half the terms in the definition have to, in
turn, be looked up. Perhaps a glossary would be helpful.
The other thing about the manual that makes it difficult is the absence of
anything that ties related opcodes together. The quick reference does
group them, but without explanation. An easy example of this are the pvs
opcodes. These are great and I have enjoyed using them, but many of them
seem related and some really work best when used together in some way. An
introduction that explains what they are and, in less technical terms,
what they do, and finally, how they relate to one one another would make
these tools far more accessible.
The last thing I think could be helpful both to the novice and more
experienced Csound user is an index to the manual. By this I don't mean a
simple alphabetical listing of the opcodes as already exists. The problem
here is that if you don't already know what it is, you can't look it up.
Again, the quick reference is helpful, but begs the question: you have to
already know what group of opcodes to look at in order to find what you
need. A conceptual index that avoids the technical terminology what be a
real boon.
All that said, I fully realize that Csound is driven by dedicated
developers such as yourself and that the kind of enhancements I'm
suggesting would be a large and time consuming project. I appreciate
Csound as is and have enjoyed the challenge of learning it, but since you
asked...
Best--
--David
Post by Michael Gogins
Thanks for your informed feedback.
I would be very interested to hear what you think could be changed in
Csound to make it easier for people like you to use.
Regards,
Mike
Post by m***@city-net.com
Kyma was my primary compositional tool from 1994-2004. It is
fabulous
and
IMO there's nothing better. However, it is expensive. I switched to Csound
after retiring from my day job. There is no way now I can afford to keep
up with Kyma upgrades.
So far, I haven't encountered anything that I can't do in Csound that I
was doing with Kyma, though Kyma is faster and more intuitive to work
with. Since I am completely self-taught, Csound totally baffled me
when
I
first looked at it around 1996. Kyma, and Carla Scaletti's excellent
manual and tutorials, taught me enough about how digital sound works that
the switch to Csound has been an enjoyable one. That said, I don't
hesitate to recommend Kyma to anyone who asks. However, whether it's the
holy grail...only Monty Python knows for sure.
--David
--
http://www.city-net.com/~moko/
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe csound"
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
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Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
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gmschroeder
2010-03-17 13:16:56 UTC
Permalink
Perhaps contrary to my earlier comments about n00bs . . .
The index described here sounds like an invitation to conformity.
Isn't some aimpless experimentation a major part of what makes for
innovation?

Desperately seeking a way to modify or generate a signal in a way you
know can be done but don't know how is a good thing from that
perspective.
The only way this could possibly be improved, in my mind, would be to
make .csd's modifiable in realtime, and I don't think that's practical.

I think the manual's fine. It doesn't tell you twice, but it
certainly tells you.
I'd point to Puckette's book if someone really wants to learn what's
up with digital audio broadly in dead-simple language. It works up
from samples/sampling (in the "digital information" sense) through
additive to waveshaping and the like.
I can't comment on any of the other books around.
I like the csound book so far, but it is *not* a course.

Finding creative ways to implement some of the examples Puckette
gives in csound's (imo) much more open-ended cluster**** of opcodes
was educational to say the least.
Combining that knowledge with some posts from this list and EAST v2
from Jacob Joaquin helped me start doing some marginally challenging
things.
If certain opcodes only work together, I guess I see that as
something to talk a little more about.
I don't do terribly bleeding edge stuff and as such don't find the
newer opcodes all that useful.
I'm def. down for seeing something a bit more like a course, though.

Greg
Post by m***@city-net.com
Mike--
For me, the initial opaqueness of Csound was largely the result of my own
ignorance about digital sound and how to work with it on a
computer. None
of my old reel-to-reel cut 'n splice experience seemed relevant. Kyma got
me past that. So, to make Csound easier for "people like me" (I am a
mammal) would entail, at least, some introductory matter on the nature of
digital sound and how some of the basic opcodes function.
The manual is an excellent reference tool but is not a particularly good
teaching tool. The tutorials are good as far as they go. The
introductory
chapters of the Csound Book are also helpful for getting started. But what
seems lacking to me for beginners is something that ties it all together.
If you can get hold of a copy, take a look at the tutorials in the Kyma
manual.
The terminology in the manual took me a long time to grasp. It is elegant
and consistent once you get it, but until then it's like looking something
up in a technical dictionary: half the terms in the definition have to, in
turn, be looked up. Perhaps a glossary would be helpful.
The other thing about the manual that makes it difficult is the absence of
anything that ties related opcodes together. The quick reference does
group them, but without explanation. An easy example of this are the pvs
opcodes. These are great and I have enjoyed using them, but many of them
seem related and some really work best when used together in some way. An
introduction that explains what they are and, in less technical terms,
what they do, and finally, how they relate to one one another would make
these tools far more accessible.
The last thing I think could be helpful both to the novice and more
experienced Csound user is an index to the manual. By this I don't mean a
simple alphabetical listing of the opcodes as already exists. The problem
here is that if you don't already know what it is, you can't look it up.
Again, the quick reference is helpful, but begs the question: you have to
already know what group of opcodes to look at in order to find what you
need. A conceptual index that avoids the technical terminology what be a
real boon.
All that said, I fully realize that Csound is driven by dedicated
developers such as yourself and that the kind of enhancements I'm
suggesting would be a large and time consuming project. I appreciate
Csound as is and have enjoyed the challenge of learning it, but since you
asked...
Best--
--David
Post by Michael Gogins
Thanks for your informed feedback.
I would be very interested to hear what you think could be changed in
Csound to make it easier for people like you to use.
Regards,
Mike
Post by m***@city-net.com
Kyma was my primary compositional tool from 1994-2004. It is
fabulous
and
IMO there's nothing better. However, it is expensive. I switched to Csound
after retiring from my day job. There is no way now I can afford to keep
up with Kyma upgrades.
So far, I haven't encountered anything that I can't do in Csound that I
was doing with Kyma, though Kyma is faster and more intuitive to work
with. Since I am completely self-taught, Csound totally baffled
me when
I
first looked at it around 1996. Kyma, and Carla Scaletti's excellent
manual and tutorials, taught me enough about how digital sound works that
the switch to Csound has been an enjoyable one. That said, I don't
hesitate to recommend Kyma to anyone who asks. However, whether it's the
holy grail...only Monty Python knows for sure.
--David
--
http://www.city-net.com/~moko/
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?
group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
"unsubscribe csound"
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Michael Gogins
2010-03-17 13:18:47 UTC
Permalink
Did you read "A Csound Tutorial" by me?

Regards,
Mike
Post by m***@city-net.com
Mike--
For me, the initial opaqueness of Csound was largely the result of my own
ignorance about digital sound and how to work with it on a computer. None
of my old reel-to-reel cut 'n splice experience seemed relevant. Kyma got
me past that. So, to make Csound easier for "people like me" (I am a
mammal) would entail, at least, some introductory matter on the nature of
digital sound and how some of the basic opcodes function.
The manual is an excellent reference tool but is not a particularly good
teaching tool. The tutorials are good as far as they go. The introductory
chapters of the Csound Book are also helpful for getting started. But what
seems lacking to me for beginners is something that ties it all together.
If you can get hold of a copy, take a look at the tutorials in the Kyma
manual.
The terminology in the manual took me a long time to grasp. It is elegant
and consistent once you get it, but until then it's like looking something
up in a technical dictionary: half the terms in the definition have to, in
turn, be looked up. Perhaps a glossary would be helpful.
The other thing about the manual that makes it difficult is the absence of
anything that ties related opcodes together. The quick reference does
group them, but without explanation. An easy example of this are the pvs
opcodes. These are great and I have enjoyed using them, but many of them
seem related and some really work best when used together in some way. An
introduction that explains what they are and, in less technical terms,
what they do, and finally, how they relate to one one another would make
these tools far more accessible.
The last thing I think could be helpful both to the novice and more
experienced Csound user is an index to the manual. By this I don't mean a
simple alphabetical listing of the opcodes as already exists. The problem
here is that if you don't already know what it is, you can't look it up.
Again, the quick reference is helpful, but begs the question: you have to
already know what group of opcodes to look at in order to find what you
need. A conceptual index that avoids the technical terminology what be a
real boon.
All that said, I fully realize that Csound is driven by dedicated
developers such as yourself and that the kind of enhancements I'm
suggesting would be a large and time consuming project. I appreciate
Csound as is and have enjoyed the challenge of learning it, but since you
asked...
Best--
--David
Post by Michael Gogins
Thanks for your informed feedback.
I would be very interested to hear what you think could be changed in
Csound to make it easier for people like you to use.
Regards,
Mike
Post by m***@city-net.com
Kyma was my primary compositional tool from 1994-2004. It is fabulous and
IMO there's nothing better. However, it is expensive. I switched to Csound
after retiring from my day job. There is no way now I can afford to keep
up with Kyma upgrades.
So far, I haven't encountered anything that I can't do in Csound that I
was doing with Kyma, though Kyma is faster and more intuitive to work
with. Since I am completely self-taught, Csound totally baffled me when I
first looked at it around 1996. Kyma, and Carla Scaletti's excellent
manual and tutorials, taught me enough about how digital sound works that
the switch to Csound has been an enjoyable one. That said, I don't
hesitate to recommend Kyma to anyone who asks. However, whether it's the
holy grail...only Monty Python knows for sure.
--David
--
http://www.city-net.com/~moko/
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com


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Robert or Gretchen Foose
2010-03-18 06:15:49 UTC
Permalink
Michael Gogins
2010-03-18 15:21:02 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for your response. This is what I hope for from better examples in
the csound package.

MKG from cell phone

On Mar 18, 2010 2:16 AM, "Robert or Gretchen Foose" <***@comcast.net>
wrote:

I did. And the Csound Book, Virtual Sound, Cooking with Csound, a lot of
the materials on the csound cd's, every issue of Csound journal, and, of
course, this list. Virtually none of these really touched on why, or when,
I'd use any of the (is it 1400 now?) of the opcodes and Gen routines that
are currently available.
As was mentioned, if you know what you're looking for, you can find it
(mostly). But I'd hope that the developers of all these new possibilities
would want to see them used by as many people as possible. To borrow from
one of the toots, 'you can do a lot of synthesis with just oscil'..but there
are better ways to achieve the same results, and ways to achieve even better
ones using 'the new stuff'. The manual examples are a start, but they're
too simple.
What would be really useful is for the developers of these resources to
provide an example of how they use them. This would probably work best as
an online-only sort of collection, and should definitely not be a part of
the already overly long manual. Most of what I've learned about using
csound (and programming in general) has been through a basic tutorial, a
book (or two) and picking apart code. And here again, I learned best when
the coder took the time to document what what going on, and why he or she
did it that way. I guess what I'm asking for is beyond the apprentice
stage, on its way toward journeyman stage. Too much of what I see is
tending toward the master stage...and most of it still just uses what were
probably the first 20 or 30 opcodes that were created!!
Once again, I'm not griping, just hoping to see things get better.
Bob Foose
PS- I really appreciate what Jake is doing along these lines. Interesting
instruments..interesting code..and helpful explanations of how he got to
where he's going.
Post by Michael Gogins
Did you read "A Csound Tutorial" by me?
Regards,
Mike
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 8:54 AM,...
Post by m***@city-net.com
Mike--
For me, the initial opaqueness of Csound was largely the result of my
own
Post by m***@city-net.com
igno...
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id 968&atidV4599
Post by m***@city-net.com
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_...

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m***@city-net.com
2010-03-19 12:30:47 UTC
Permalink
Yes, I did. It was very helpful. Your tutorial and Boulanger's
"Introduction to Sound Design in Csound" in _The Csound Book_ were both
helpful in getting me started. I also looked at the book _Virtual Sound_.
This book is now dated, but for pre ver 5 does provide a structured and
progressive approach into Csound.

--David
Post by Michael Gogins
Did you read "A Csound Tutorial" by me?
Regards,
Mike
Post by m***@city-net.com
Mike--
For me, the initial opaqueness of Csound was largely the result of my own
ignorance about digital sound and how to work with it on a computer. None
of my old reel-to-reel cut 'n splice experience seemed relevant. Kyma
[...snip...]
Post by Michael Gogins
--
Michael Gogins
Irreducible Productions
http://www.michael-gogins.com
Michael dot Gogins at gmail dot com
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Dave Phillips
2010-03-19 12:48:01 UTC
Permalink
... I also looked at the book _Virtual Sound_.
This book is now dated, but for pre ver 5 does provide a structured and
progressive approach into Csound.
IMO, it works well even for post-5 Csound.

If anyone asks for a beginner's book on Csound I recommend Virtual
Sound. The Csound Book is a wonderful tome, to be sure, but it is not
designed for the absolute beginner.

Best,

dp



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Andres Cabrera
2010-03-17 17:34:23 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

The manual always need a little love...

And contributions are very encouraged. But they usually have to come
as very concrete and specific material, otherwise it would mean a
larger commitment from somebody who may not have the motivation to do
it.

Even small suggestions like add so and so opcode in the see also
section of so and so opcode. These suggestions are very useful as it's
nearly impossible to scan the whole manual to look for improvements.

Cheers,
Andrés
Post by m***@city-net.com
Mike--
For me, the initial opaqueness of Csound was largely the result of my own
ignorance about digital sound and how to work with it on a computer. None
of my old reel-to-reel cut 'n splice experience seemed relevant. Kyma got
me past that. So, to make Csound easier for "people like me" (I am a
mammal) would entail, at least, some introductory matter on the nature of
digital sound and how some of the basic opcodes function.
The manual is an excellent reference tool but is not a particularly good
teaching tool. The tutorials are good as far as they go. The introductory
chapters of the Csound Book are also helpful for getting started. But what
seems lacking to me for beginners is something that ties it all together.
If you can get hold of a copy, take a look at the tutorials in the Kyma
manual.
The terminology in the manual took me a long time to grasp. It is elegant
and consistent once you get it, but until then it's like looking something
up in a technical dictionary: half the terms in the definition have to, in
turn, be looked up. Perhaps a glossary would be helpful.
The other thing about the manual that makes it difficult is the absence of
anything that ties related opcodes together. The quick reference does
group them, but without explanation. An easy example of this are the pvs
opcodes. These are great and I have enjoyed using them, but many of them
seem related and some really work best when used together in some way. An
introduction that explains what they are and, in less technical terms,
what they do, and finally, how they relate to one one another would make
these tools far more accessible.
The last thing I think could be helpful both to the novice and more
experienced Csound user is an index to the manual. By this I don't mean a
simple alphabetical listing of the opcodes as already exists. The problem
here is that if you don't already know what it is, you can't look it up.
Again, the quick reference is helpful, but begs the question: you have to
already know what group of opcodes to look at in order to find what you
need. A conceptual index that avoids the technical terminology what be a
real boon.
All that said, I fully realize that Csound is driven by dedicated
developers such as yourself and that the kind of enhancements I'm
suggesting would be a large and time consuming project. I appreciate
Csound as is and have enjoyed the challenge of learning it, but since you
asked...
Best--
--David
Post by Michael Gogins
Thanks for your informed feedback.
I would be very interested to hear what you think could be changed in
Csound to make it easier for people like you to use.
Regards,
Mike
Post by m***@city-net.com
Kyma was my primary compositional tool from 1994-2004. It is fabulous and
IMO there's nothing better. However, it is expensive. I switched to Csound
after retiring from my day job. There is no way now I can afford to keep
up with Kyma upgrades.
So far, I haven't encountered anything that I can't do in Csound that I
was doing with Kyma, though Kyma is faster and more intuitive to work
with. Since I am completely self-taught, Csound totally baffled me when I
first looked at it around 1996. Kyma, and Carla Scaletti's excellent
manual and tutorials, taught me enough about how digital sound works that
the switch to Csound has been an enjoyable one. That said, I don't
hesitate to recommend Kyma to anyone who asks. However, whether it's the
holy grail...only Monty Python knows for sure.
--David
--
http://www.city-net.com/~moko/
Send bugs reports to the Sourceforge bug tracker
           https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=81968&atid=564599
Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
--
Andrés


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Partev Barr Sarkissian
2010-03-18 04:18:31 UTC
Permalink
Victor,

I have a large modular (virtual), Moog Model V. It's a software
package called Moog Modular V, by Arturia in Italy. Cool stuff.
I'm using it and Reason 3 & 4, by Propellorhead, Sweden, on a synth
CD I'm doing. Planning to have some Csound sounds on it here and there.

So, I have a large modular, but it's on my laptop. Which is more
portable than the modular monstrosity my music partner and I built
back in the early 1980's.

We each took a couple of mods, I did the filters (VCF's), he did the
VCO's and VCA's and he and another guy did a couple of versions of an
Envelop Generator. We used IC's from SSMT (later bought by Percision
Monolithic, later bought by Analog Devices). Another freind of his
wrote a crude sequencer (pre-MIDI) program for the Apple IIe we had.
We etched our PCB's, stuffed and mounted the modules in a rack. It
was kludgy, but it worked pretty well.

SSMT IC's were what was used in the Prophet-5, so we went from their
schematics and SSMT application notes,... and a few tweaks of our own
(we were shooting for the blue skies of synths).

We never copy straight off the Prophet schematics, but only used it
as a reference to see how they implemented what they did to give us some
kind of starting point. We wanted to keep our mistakes down to a minmum.
We went mainly from the IC app-notes, with a few of our own features we
wanted for our system.

Still have that thing at my friends place, and yes, portions of it still
function last time we checked.

So, yeah Victor, I know the feeling. Can't get away from those modulars.
But then again, why would anyone want to.

If wishes were horses (or kyma), I'd have a wall size Model-5 Synths,
MIDI-ed and polyphonic. Oh wait,... I already almost have that now with
my Arturia software package, and on a laptop. Ain't technology grand!


Later, cheers,
-Partev


===================================================================



--- ***@nuim.ie wrote:

From: Victor Lazzarini <***@nuim.ie>
To: ***@lists.bath.ac.uk
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: [OT] wishes (was Re: Re: kyma x)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:17:32 +0000

yes, I've worked with a big 16tracker once upon a time. Not something
I'd like to come back to. But I would love having a large modular
synth in our studio.

Victor
Post by PINOT Francois
I've been working in an electronic music studio during 15 years
(1980 - 1995). This studio was a part of an organization called
'European Center for Musical Reserch'. We had a contemporary music
festival each year in november (International meetings for
contemporary music in Metz, France). The electronic studio had a lot
of equipment: analog synths (AKS from EMS, ARP 2600, Roland System
700), professional tape machines (Studer 2, 4, and 16 tracks, MCI 8
tracks), digital equipements (Yamaha dx7, tx81z, Akai S1000,
Synclavier II), etc.
It's been fantastic to work there. I've seen a lot of composers
(Messiean, Xenakis, Stockausen, Kagel, Boulez, Berio, Cage, Tudor,
La Monte Young, Riley, Glass...) who were invited by the festival,
and I could work with some of them.
But during all those years, I was complaining about all those
cables, heavy machines, hard to maintain equipment... Have you ever
calibrated a 16 tracks analog tape machine? Each time we had a
concert outside we filled a whole truck (how heavy were those
gears!). At that time, I had a wish: a lightweight and powerful
equipment I could take everywhere. It's realized nowadays.
My wish today it to get more free time to make music with my laptop...
François Pinot
Post by Victor Lazzarini
But that is the fun! I love patch cables. Obviously, I'm not
thinking of productivity here. Some of the Buchla youtube videos
are really interesting.
Victor
Post by Mark Van Peteghem
I typed buchla in youtube and saw some videos of these systems. It
seems like it is terrible if you want to be productive, with all
these cables you have to connect. Quickly loading an old project
is out of the question.
But they sound great, that I have to say.
Post by Victor Lazzarini
If we are talking about wishes, mine is
http://www.buchla.com/series200e.html
scroll down the page to system 7.
--
Mark
_________________________________________
When you get lemons, you make lemonade.
When you get hardware, you make software.
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"unsubscribe csound"
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"unsubscribe csound"
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_____________________________________________________________
Netscape. Just the Net You Need.
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Peiman Khosravi
2010-03-18 11:07:39 UTC
Permalink
While on the subject. Has anyone got a CSD to emulate Stockhause's
Kontakte synthesis techniques? I think it's just pulse generator +
filters and feedback loop.

Best,

Peiman
Post by Partev Barr Sarkissian
Victor,
I have a large modular (virtual), Moog Model V. It's a software
package called Moog Modular V, by Arturia in Italy. Cool stuff.
I'm using it and Reason 3 & 4, by Propellorhead, Sweden, on a synth
CD I'm doing. Planning to have some Csound sounds on it here and there.
So, I have a large modular, but it's on my laptop. Which is more
portable than the modular monstrosity my music partner and I built
back in the early 1980's.
We each took a couple of mods, I did the filters (VCF's), he did the
VCO's and VCA's and he and another guy did a couple of versions of an
Envelop Generator. We used IC's from SSMT (later bought by Percision
Monolithic, later bought by Analog Devices). Another freind of his
wrote a crude sequencer (pre-MIDI) program for the Apple IIe we had.
We etched our PCB's, stuffed and mounted the modules in a rack. It
was kludgy, but it worked pretty well.
SSMT IC's were what was used in the Prophet-5, so we went from their
schematics and SSMT application notes,... and a few tweaks of our own
(we were shooting for the blue skies of synths).
We never copy straight off the Prophet schematics, but only used it
as a reference to see how they implemented what they did to give us some
kind of starting point. We wanted to keep our mistakes down to a minmum.
We went mainly from the IC app-notes, with a few of our own features we
wanted for our system.
Still have that thing at my friends place, and yes, portions of it still
function last time we checked.
So, yeah Victor, I know the feeling. Can't get away from those modulars.
But then again, why would anyone want to.
If wishes were horses (or kyma), I'd have a wall size Model-5 Synths,
MIDI-ed and polyphonic. Oh wait,... I already almost have that now with
my Arturia software package, and on a laptop. Ain't technology grand!
Later, cheers,
-Partev
===================================================================
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: [OT] wishes (was Re: Re: kyma x)
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:17:32 +0000
yes, I've worked with a big 16tracker once upon a time. Not something
I'd like to come back to. But I would love having a large modular
synth in our studio.
Victor
Post by PINOT Francois
I've been working in an electronic music studio during 15 years
(1980 - 1995). This studio was a part of an organization called
'European Center for Musical Reserch'. We had a contemporary music
festival each year in november (International meetings for
contemporary music in Metz, France). The electronic studio had a lot
of equipment: analog synths (AKS from EMS, ARP 2600, Roland System
700), professional tape machines (Studer 2, 4, and 16 tracks, MCI 8
tracks), digital equipements (Yamaha dx7, tx81z, Akai S1000,
Synclavier II), etc.
It's been fantastic to work there. I've seen a lot of composers
(Messiean, Xenakis, Stockausen, Kagel, Boulez, Berio, Cage, Tudor,
La Monte Young, Riley, Glass...) who were invited by the festival,
and I could work with some of them.
But during all those years, I was complaining about all those
cables, heavy machines, hard to maintain equipment... Have you ever
calibrated a 16 tracks analog tape machine? Each time we had a
concert outside we filled a whole truck (how heavy were those
gears!). At that time, I had a wish: a lightweight and powerful
equipment I could take everywhere. It's realized nowadays.
My wish today it to get more free time to make music with my
laptop...
François Pinot
Post by Victor Lazzarini
But that is the fun! I love patch cables. Obviously, I'm not
thinking of productivity here. Some of the Buchla youtube videos
are really interesting.
Victor
Post by Mark Van Peteghem
I typed buchla in youtube and saw some videos of these systems. It
seems like it is terrible if you want to be productive, with all
these cables you have to connect. Quickly loading an old project
is out of the question.
But they sound great, that I have to say.
Post by Victor Lazzarini
If we are talking about wishes, mine is
http://www.buchla.com/series200e.html
scroll down the page to system 7.
--
Mark
_________________________________________
When you get lemons, you make lemonade.
When you get hardware, you make software.
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_____________________________________________________________
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Partev Barr Sarkissian
2010-03-19 04:08:09 UTC
Permalink
Eventide,... love that stuff. I've been inside of those for the
purpose of servicing and repairing (SPS2019 the 8-bit version,
HS2000/ HS3000) they're wonderful. Wish I had a couple. Saw King
Crimson in concert a few years ago, Robert Fripp had a rack with
four HS3000's in it. I had just got done working on two units for
someone earlier that day, so I thought it was so cool. Sounded great.

As far a Yamaha goes, we still use a DX5, basically a stereo pair
of DX7's in one box. It uses two RAM packs, a Bank1 (stereo left)
and a Bank2 (stereo right). We have a set of Bo Tomlin's Analog packs.
Met him a couple times in the late 1970's, during my days working for
Iron Butterfly and their spin-off bands.

You guys are making me wax nostalgic. I love it,... talk synthie to me. (LOL)


-Partev


=================================================================



--- ***@block4.com wrote:

From: Malte Steiner <***@block4.com>
To: ***@lists.bath.ac.uk
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: [OT] wishes (was Re: Re: kyma x)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:34:42 +0100

Also making electronic music since 1983, still buying hardware
equipment. Michael Gogins is right about Open Source and thats why I am
using it more and more. I never thought that one device or software
could replace another one (do you remember the times where everyone
threw out analogue synths in the 80s in favor for stuff like DX7? ) , I
keep adding. Sometimes I like to work with CSound, sometimes PD and
another day it has to be an actual analogue modular (in my case a
Doepfer A100) when I cant stand computers.
Recently I had the opportunity to work with a Kyma Capybara system but I
found it to be rather odd, comming from a Max and PD background. You
grab a preset patch and change it but AFAIK you cant build something
from scratch. Its nice to have a dedicated DSP box but you totally
depend on the software which you always need to run, even if you dont
want to change anything, just playing your patches.
The current systems, Paca and Pacarana, dont have A/D/A converters
anymore, so an external Firewire or USB converterbox is to be added to
the price and only a handful is supported.

I have a sweet spot for Eventide DSP FX boxes like the H8000 but I guess
it wouldn't add something vast new to my studio. Their patch editor
looks like PD and is rather complicated to setup, so why not using PD?

So these feelings of need, the socalled Gear Acquisition Syndrome ,are
just sentimental. The only benefit I guess are the loads of high quality
presets that Eventide and Kyma comes with. My understanding of digital
signal processing is rather limited so it would help.

Cheers,

Malte
Partev Barr Sarkissian
2010-03-22 20:19:33 UTC
Permalink
Partev Barr Sarkissian
2010-03-22 20:32:52 UTC
Permalink
There's head gear. It picks up a select number of brain waves
and sets up ccontrol voltages that get routed to VCO's, VCA's
Envelop Generators, VCF's and such. Contorllability is more
than just difficult and most don't generate or sustain brain
wave patterns for a long enough period to be useful for more
than a minute. It's an interesting research set-up, maybe useful
full experimental compositions, for something like a 'My Thoughts
On Sonic Highway' or something of the sort.

For your spectral thoughts you's probably need a noise generator
to go with all the Voltage Controlled Elements, or do a multitrack
recording of it.

-Partev


================================================================



--- ***@gmail.com wrote:

From: Peiman Khosravi <***@gmail.com>
To: ***@lists.bath.ac.uk
Subject: [Csnd] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [OT] wishes (was Re: Re: kyma x)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:09:20 +0000

Indeed it is unfortunate. Wouldn't it be amazing to be able to record
spectromorphological streams of consciousness and then edit and mix
them...
Post by Victor Lazzarini
Unfortunately, it appears to be less tractable than that...
Post by Peiman Khosravi
I want to be able to imagine spectra and for it to be realised!!
Post by Rory Walsh
Post by Chuckk Hubbard
A brain-computer interface. I read about some work a while ago,
but not
available to musicians.
I know at least one musician who has one! She was using the info
retrieved to control parameters of her compositions. As far as I
know
she does not use it anymore, in fact I think she's interested in
selling it.
Rory.
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_____________________________________________________________
Netscape. Just the Net You Need.


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kelly hirai
2010-03-22 18:47:04 UTC
Permalink
i'm checking to see if anyone knows weather more than one midi event per
ksamp is recorded in csound5 using -+rtmidi alsa... the michael berry
cdrom chapter 3 suggests its one event per ksamp, but that was csound
4.23. has it changed?

kelly


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Andres Cabrera
2010-03-23 10:09:58 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

Yes, you can receive several MIDI events in a single control block.
If you look at InOut/rtalsa.c, line 777, you will see the events
received are queued in a buffer (even events from different devices
are queued if you use -Ma).
So it is always recommended to query incoming MIDI in a loop until all
events in the block are read to minimize event jitter.

Cheers,
Andrés

On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 6:47 PM, kelly hirai
Post by kelly hirai
i'm checking to see if anyone knows weather more than one midi event per
ksamp is recorded in csound5 using -+rtmidi alsa... the michael berry cdrom
chapter 3 suggests its one event per ksamp, but that was csound 4.23. has it
changed?
kelly
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Discussions of bugs and features can be posted here
--
Andrés


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